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BrutusKhan
Loved him in Syracuse. Loved him when he first started. Thought he was going to be a great QB.
4&forever, he does a great pass against GB.
But, this guy has had time after time to show me something, and with the exception of when T.O. was on the field with him, he looked bad. It's like imagining Randall Cunningham with bad knees. He's banged up, and his numbers suck now.
It's getting to the point where you understand why T.O. was complaining, Garcia(bum) & now McNabb.
Obviously, I'm going over board in my current disgust, but still, the argument has some merrit to it.
Doug
McNabb's a bum
November 15, 2005 at 10:23PM View BBCode
There. I've said it before, & I'm saying it again.Loved him in Syracuse. Loved him when he first started. Thought he was going to be a great QB.
4&forever, he does a great pass against GB.
But, this guy has had time after time to show me something, and with the exception of when T.O. was on the field with him, he looked bad. It's like imagining Randall Cunningham with bad knees. He's banged up, and his numbers suck now.
It's getting to the point where you understand why T.O. was complaining, Garcia(bum) & now McNabb.
Obviously, I'm going over board in my current disgust, but still, the argument has some merrit to it.
Doug
whiskybear
[Edited on 11-15-2005 by whiskybear]
November 15, 2005 at 10:31PM View BBCode
McNabb is like the guy in the Ardennes who gets his legs shot out from under him, and the rest of his platoon wants to carry him out, but he demands they prop him up against a spruce tree and he sits back and snipes the Jerries while his buddies fall back to the rendezvous point. It's started to rain by the time he's run out of ammunition, and he's clutching a live grenade to his chest and waiting for a recon unit to fall upon his position so he can blow them to bits.[Edited on 11-15-2005 by whiskybear]
BrutusKhan
November 15, 2005 at 10:34PM View BBCode
Yeah, but he can't play QB for crap. Let that guy be my running back, or TE or hell, even FB.
barterer2002
He also needs to sit out. He's got a torn muscle in his stomach, he can't run, even if he wanted to which he has been resistant to and can't really even move in the pocket. At this point he's hurting the team.
November 15, 2005 at 10:39PM View BBCode
On the flip side Doug, McNabb has never had anyone to throw it to either, aside from Owens. He's not the most accurate QB in the world and is probably mis cast in a west coast offense but aside from Owens his best target has been James Thrash. Seven years and you've had one year with a decent receiver.He also needs to sit out. He's got a torn muscle in his stomach, he can't run, even if he wanted to which he has been resistant to and can't really even move in the pocket. At this point he's hurting the team.
youngallstar
Nice use of imagery here.
November 15, 2005 at 10:43PM View BBCode
Originally posted by whiskybear
McNabb is like the guy in the Arden who gets his legs shot out from under him, and the rest of his platoon wants to carry him out, but he demands they prop him up against a spruce tree and he sits back and snipes the Jerries while his buddies fall back to the rendezvous point. It's started to rain by the time he's run out of ammunition, and he's clutching a live grenade to his chest and waiting for a recon unit to fall upon his position so he can blow them to bits.
Nice use of imagery here.
whiskybear
November 15, 2005 at 10:45PM View BBCode
Thanks. In my next installment, I'll compare Brett Favre to Davey Crockett at the Alamo.
sycophantman
Some teams go years and years without having a quarterback even slightly as good as McNabb. Brady gets a lot of credit for being a winning quarterback, but rarely have the Patriots won games by double digits, its often a matter of things going their way. They are both very poised and talented, but McNabb seems to get the short end of the karma stick...
November 15, 2005 at 10:52PM View BBCode
Donovan McNabb isn't all that bad, a little perspective is in order.Some teams go years and years without having a quarterback even slightly as good as McNabb. Brady gets a lot of credit for being a winning quarterback, but rarely have the Patriots won games by double digits, its often a matter of things going their way. They are both very poised and talented, but McNabb seems to get the short end of the karma stick...
FuriousGiorge
November 15, 2005 at 11:19PM View BBCode
The term Jerries is comedic gold every time. Your spelling of French-language-based locations could use some work though.
BrutusKhan
Although, as bad as K. Orton for the Bears looks, he isn't losing the game at the end. They punt the ball, and let the defense win or lose.
And Tom Brady is to our age what Joe Montana was to the last generation. You can't win games on a bad team, but a great QB wins most of the time with the game on the line.
November 16, 2005 at 12:01AM View BBCode
While I hadn't given much thought to the part Barterer2002 pointed out, that McNabb has never had any receivers outside of T.O. to look good with, acuracy is the most important skill imo for a QB.Although, as bad as K. Orton for the Bears looks, he isn't losing the game at the end. They punt the ball, and let the defense win or lose.
And Tom Brady is to our age what Joe Montana was to the last generation. You can't win games on a bad team, but a great QB wins most of the time with the game on the line.
FuriousGiorge
November 16, 2005 at 12:04AM View BBCode
Sort of like when McNabb got his team to the NFC title game 4 straight times, including a trip to the Super Bowl? But I guess none of those playoff victories along the way count.
ShaggySanchez
McNabb has had some pretty good years with no recievers to speak of and after getting Owens we saw he could be even better. If he had a running game and anything at all at reciever we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
November 16, 2005 at 12:28AM View BBCode
Its all the same with QBs, when their team is winning they are the greatest thing since sliced bread but when the team is losing they suck. If the Patriots had only won 1 superbowl and never made it back would Brady be the Montana of our generation? For that matter if Brady was playing for the Houston Texans the last 4 years would anyone think he was any better than David Carr? McNabb isn't as good as all the praise but is by no means a bum, I think the Eagles just aren't as good this year as they have been in the past.McNabb has had some pretty good years with no recievers to speak of and after getting Owens we saw he could be even better. If he had a running game and anything at all at reciever we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
FuriousGiorge
Certain unnamed posters on here have about as much perspective as a goldfish, having previously suggested that the 2005 White Sox be considered for the title of "best team ever", and now deciding that Donovan McNabb is a bum because he's had a couple of lousy games.
November 16, 2005 at 01:03AM View BBCode
Brady is a good quarterback, one of the top 3 in the NFL. He'd be good regardless of whether he had managed to guide his team to three titles.Certain unnamed posters on here have about as much perspective as a goldfish, having previously suggested that the 2005 White Sox be considered for the title of "best team ever", and now deciding that Donovan McNabb is a bum because he's had a couple of lousy games.
sycophantman
[Edited on 11/16/2005 by sycophantman]
November 16, 2005 at 01:20AM View BBCode
McNabb deserves respect, he is a great player. Sadly, it seems he'll be remembered the way Jim Kelly or Warren Moon are, fondly, but not much...[Edited on 11/16/2005 by sycophantman]
skierdude44
I was waiting for someone to bring that up. And note that he guided the Eagles to those NFC title games (and won the game last year) without Terrell Owens. He often plays hurt and is relatively effective despite having very little in terms of quality recievers.
As far as this year is concerned, the Eagles have many flaws which have contributed to the 4-5 start. McNabb seems to be taking the blame for a lot of it, but in reality some of the problems are beyond his control. One of the major issues the Eagles have is that they lack a running game, or they don't go to the running game enough. McNabb has been called on to throw the ball 40+ times on several occasions this year and the opposition can just sit back in pass coverage because they know that the Eagles can't or won't run the ball. They also have some issues on defense which are beyond McNabb's control. Donovan has not played as well as he has in the past and deserves some blame as well. Obviously the Williams interception is a good example of this because that was just inexcusable, but the guy has been playing hurt and has gotten very little help from his teammates. Instead of calling him a bum, maybe he should get alittle credit for trying to guide a flawed team and playing through the pain. He'll probably sit out Sunday against the Giants and Bart is probably right about him sitting out for a while. It's one thing to play hurt and try and lead the team, but when that injury starts to affect your performance and the team negatively then it's time to step aside and see what McMahon and/or Detmer can do.
November 16, 2005 at 02:02AM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Sort of like when McNabb got his team to the NFC title game 4 straight times, including a trip to the Super Bowl? But I guess none of those playoff victories along the way count.
I was waiting for someone to bring that up. And note that he guided the Eagles to those NFC title games (and won the game last year) without Terrell Owens. He often plays hurt and is relatively effective despite having very little in terms of quality recievers.
As far as this year is concerned, the Eagles have many flaws which have contributed to the 4-5 start. McNabb seems to be taking the blame for a lot of it, but in reality some of the problems are beyond his control. One of the major issues the Eagles have is that they lack a running game, or they don't go to the running game enough. McNabb has been called on to throw the ball 40+ times on several occasions this year and the opposition can just sit back in pass coverage because they know that the Eagles can't or won't run the ball. They also have some issues on defense which are beyond McNabb's control. Donovan has not played as well as he has in the past and deserves some blame as well. Obviously the Williams interception is a good example of this because that was just inexcusable, but the guy has been playing hurt and has gotten very little help from his teammates. Instead of calling him a bum, maybe he should get alittle credit for trying to guide a flawed team and playing through the pain. He'll probably sit out Sunday against the Giants and Bart is probably right about him sitting out for a while. It's one thing to play hurt and try and lead the team, but when that injury starts to affect your performance and the team negatively then it's time to step aside and see what McMahon and/or Detmer can do.
barterer2002
November 16, 2005 at 03:24AM View BBCode
The problem for the Eagles right now is that rest won't help. Donovan needs surgery and it's a 10-12 week recovery program meaning that he's out for the year and the team is looking ahead to 2006 instead of this year. At this point they don't seem ready to make that step but two more losses and they may be there.
BrutusKhan
The Eagles had one of the best defenses every year for a long time and played in a crap division, which is what I credit to them doing well the past seasons, not McNabb. So, the Bears have a legit chance of making(I cringe at the thought because they are ugle to watch play) the playoffs, and might win a game or two once there. Crazier has happened. If it does, do we turn around and give credit to Kyle Orton? Surely, McNabb is better than him, but how much better is the Bear's record? Are you saying the Bears have a better team than the Eagles, except at QB? Come on, the guy's playing hurt, and his numbers will be down, but that has NOTHING to do with blowing a game with the season on the line!
I'll take back my 'he's a bum" when he does something without TO, and given the Eagles ability to sign real wide outs, i doubt he'll ever have the chance.
PS Furious, I'll defend my claims about the White Sox after next year when the results come in. I just started playing SD last year, and didn't read or post anything during last year's baseball season on this site, so I have no proof I claimed the White Sox would go deep into the playoffs going back as far as April '05.
Glad to see V.Tech do so well again under pressure by the way.
November 16, 2005 at 07:50PM View BBCode
Well, if Tom Brady or Joe Montana played for the Eagles last year, at the end of the SuperBowl, I'd have good money riding on the Eagles winning that game. Donovan didn't even make it up to the line of scrimmage, much less get his team into scoring position.The Eagles had one of the best defenses every year for a long time and played in a crap division, which is what I credit to them doing well the past seasons, not McNabb. So, the Bears have a legit chance of making(I cringe at the thought because they are ugle to watch play) the playoffs, and might win a game or two once there. Crazier has happened. If it does, do we turn around and give credit to Kyle Orton? Surely, McNabb is better than him, but how much better is the Bear's record? Are you saying the Bears have a better team than the Eagles, except at QB? Come on, the guy's playing hurt, and his numbers will be down, but that has NOTHING to do with blowing a game with the season on the line!
I'll take back my 'he's a bum" when he does something without TO, and given the Eagles ability to sign real wide outs, i doubt he'll ever have the chance.
PS Furious, I'll defend my claims about the White Sox after next year when the results come in. I just started playing SD last year, and didn't read or post anything during last year's baseball season on this site, so I have no proof I claimed the White Sox would go deep into the playoffs going back as far as April '05.
Glad to see V.Tech do so well again under pressure by the way.
yankeekid
November 16, 2005 at 08:03PM View BBCode
If Joe Montana was playing for the Eagles last year the Eagles wouldn't have made it to the playoffs.
barterer2002
November 16, 2005 at 08:04PM View BBCode
Come on Doug, you're old enough to know that one time is a fluke, twice can be lucky, more than that shows something. The Bears in the playoffs this year won't show anything more than the Falcons run in 98 did. The difference between Donovan and the Eagles is that he has been to four straight conference championships. Is the rest of the team good, of course it is. They wouldn't get there without having a good team. Your claim is that he fails at key moments and to make that argument you point to two instances where you say Donovan blew the game. Maybe you're right on both those occassions. For the sake of argument we'll say OK, it was totally Donovan McNabb's fault that the Eagles lost the Super Bowl and also because they lost Monday night against the Cowboys. So there are two losses you can attribute to Donovan over a seven year stretch. Do you suppose I can find any wins among the 75 that he's accumulated in there that could be contributed to Donovan as well? Would that be enough? Would ten? Does he have to be responsible for all 75? Let me know what the standards are here.
yankeekid
November 16, 2005 at 08:10PM View BBCode
Donovan is a phenomenal player and he's just playing hurt and that's all. You have to respect the guy for playing hurt and before that leading his team to 4 NFC's. I've learned firsthand (ok maybe I'm learning) to not post about stuff without stats and stuff to back it up.
BrutusKhan
That being said, if he were a straight bum, the Eagles would look like the Ravens the past few seasons, struggling to win 8 games. So, I realize he isn't a total bum, but that play was SO horrendous? he deserved a little over the top bashing, whether he was playing hurt or not. I know we like to see a tough QB, but I've watch Favre go out there and kill his team playing with his broken hand. I've watched enough times where the Packers were hurt because he played hurt, and you don't bench your superstar QB if he's willing to play hurt. Maybe McNabb did that to his team on Monday, maybe he makes that pass hurt or not, I don't know.
But, that was about as bad a play a QB can make at one of the worst times to do it. Surely, a choke like that can't be a 'great' QB.
Barterer, I do think the Bears situation is similar to the Eagles, in that the division just stinks, and if you put together a good defense in a CRAP division, you are going to the playoffs. I remember the one year McNabb got hurt, and Feeley? lead them to the big game against the Bucs, where they brought in McNabb, and he laid a straight egg. Now, don't go over board, I'm not stating the Bears will do anything, or win the division 4 years ,etc. Just showing how a bad team can do well in a bad division, WHICH the Eagles division was for a LONG time, accounting for a lot of the 75 wins. But, give Kyle Orton T.O., and he doesn't do what McNabb did with him last year, so he is above Orton's level!
Doug
November 16, 2005 at 08:28PM View BBCode
Ok. I did state I was going overboard calling him a bum in the first post at the top. To that, I can say, I know I'm wrong. The Eagles had many games Donavan didn't go out and blow, and some I remember him winning. But I do know that he wasn't the reason the won a lot of those games either.That being said, if he were a straight bum, the Eagles would look like the Ravens the past few seasons, struggling to win 8 games. So, I realize he isn't a total bum, but that play was SO horrendous? he deserved a little over the top bashing, whether he was playing hurt or not. I know we like to see a tough QB, but I've watch Favre go out there and kill his team playing with his broken hand. I've watched enough times where the Packers were hurt because he played hurt, and you don't bench your superstar QB if he's willing to play hurt. Maybe McNabb did that to his team on Monday, maybe he makes that pass hurt or not, I don't know.
But, that was about as bad a play a QB can make at one of the worst times to do it. Surely, a choke like that can't be a 'great' QB.
Barterer, I do think the Bears situation is similar to the Eagles, in that the division just stinks, and if you put together a good defense in a CRAP division, you are going to the playoffs. I remember the one year McNabb got hurt, and Feeley? lead them to the big game against the Bucs, where they brought in McNabb, and he laid a straight egg. Now, don't go over board, I'm not stating the Bears will do anything, or win the division 4 years ,etc. Just showing how a bad team can do well in a bad division, WHICH the Eagles division was for a LONG time, accounting for a lot of the 75 wins. But, give Kyle Orton T.O., and he doesn't do what McNabb did with him last year, so he is above Orton's level!
Doug
yankeekid
November 16, 2005 at 08:32PM View BBCode
So you're saying that the accusations your making are based on that one bad play he made? Now I'm a giant fan and I should be the last person defending Donovan but he has played very well over his career and I think he deserves a little respect.
BrutusKhan
So I guess, hasselback is a great QB now too? I'd like to point out the big year, 2003-2004 where McNabb's #'s are dwarfed by Hasselback's, and he never had T.O. to put up McNabb's last year numbers.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4416/career
Hasseback's #'s
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4650/career
McNabb's #'s
If McNabb is a great QB because he wins, why did he choke in the Bucs game a couple years back, choke in the Super Bowl & choke w/ the season on the line on Monday?
It's because he's not great, just a good QB. And obviously, not a bum, but like I said, that play deserves some over top.
November 16, 2005 at 08:54PM View BBCode
Well, Matt Hasselback's number are comparable to McNabb's, and his defense has been crap, and he hasn't had any help at wideout for years.So I guess, hasselback is a great QB now too? I'd like to point out the big year, 2003-2004 where McNabb's #'s are dwarfed by Hasselback's, and he never had T.O. to put up McNabb's last year numbers.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4416/career
Hasseback's #'s
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4650/career
McNabb's #'s
If McNabb is a great QB because he wins, why did he choke in the Bucs game a couple years back, choke in the Super Bowl & choke w/ the season on the line on Monday?
It's because he's not great, just a good QB. And obviously, not a bum, but like I said, that play deserves some over top.
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