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youngallstar
412 plate appearances with a 196 average and a 235 OBP? Yikes
[Edited on 9-9-2005 by youngallstar]
Worst player in baseball?
September 09, 2005 at 06:51PM View BBCode
Who do you think is the worst player in the majors?NAME TEAM LG YEAR POS PA PA% AVG OBP SLG SB CS MLVr PMLVr VORPr MLV PMLV VORP
Cristian Guzman WAS NL 2005 SS 412 7.8% .196 .235 .277 4 4 0.382 -0.298 -0.201 -37.5 -29.3 -19.7
412 plate appearances with a 196 average and a 235 OBP? Yikes
[Edited on 9-9-2005 by youngallstar]
max_fischer
September 09, 2005 at 06:53PM View BBCode
I saw Guzman play last weekend at RFK against some weak Phillie pitching. Guzman looked totally lost and helpless. He'd have my vote.
skierdude44
but after seeing those stats I'd probably say it is Guzman.
September 09, 2005 at 06:57PM View BBCode
I was gonna say
but after seeing those stats I'd probably say it is Guzman.
yankeekid
September 09, 2005 at 06:58PM View BBCode
Wow thats some pretty pathetic numbers... btw if anyone says Jeter I'm gonna get really mad... lol, someones bound to anyway, hmph.:mad:
ME
Hacking Mass is awesome:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/hm/index.php?mode=allstar
Pick the worst players at every position that will get lots of playing time. That's the "all star" list, the players who have been the best at being bad and not lost their jobs over it.
September 09, 2005 at 07:02PM View BBCode
Guzman is the least productive. There are worse players out there, but those guys are in the minors where they belong. It takes a lot of dumb things to happen for someone as beyond worthless as Guzman to get 400 PA in a season. (I'm looking at you, Jim Bowden). Don't worry skierdude, Tony Womack isn't that far behind.Hacking Mass is awesome:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/hm/index.php?mode=allstar
Pick the worst players at every position that will get lots of playing time. That's the "all star" list, the players who have been the best at being bad and not lost their jobs over it.
FuriousGiorge
September 09, 2005 at 07:05PM View BBCode
Let us not forget that Guzman is a former Yankee farmhand.
ME
September 09, 2005 at 07:06PM View BBCode
Along with Eric Milton, who is the Hacking Mass MVP this season.
FiveToolPlayer
September 09, 2005 at 07:07PM View BBCode
Scott Spiezio. 47 at bats, .064 batting average, $3.2 million salary.
tysonlowery
Out of players with 100 or more plate appearances, he ranks 405 out of 414 Major league players in OBP. For players with more than 138 at bats, he's only ahead of Miguel Olivio (.243 OBP in 254 at bats compared to Guzman's .244 in 386 AB).
He's not even middle of the pack with that OBP for a Pitcher!
Is he still playing everyday? He's slightly below the mark to "qualify" for the batting title. He could set the record for lowest OBP in a season. I'm not sure how to look up the record.
This guy - Bill Bergen - comes close. Not quite the number of PA that Guzman will have, but Bergen put up those stats for a lot of years in a row:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bergebi01.shtml
Onward Cristian Soldier
September 09, 2005 at 07:27PM View BBCode
Wow, that could be one of the top "bad" seasons of all time.Out of players with 100 or more plate appearances, he ranks 405 out of 414 Major league players in OBP. For players with more than 138 at bats, he's only ahead of Miguel Olivio (.243 OBP in 254 at bats compared to Guzman's .244 in 386 AB).
He's not even middle of the pack with that OBP for a Pitcher!
Is he still playing everyday? He's slightly below the mark to "qualify" for the batting title. He could set the record for lowest OBP in a season. I'm not sure how to look up the record.
This guy - Bill Bergen - comes close. Not quite the number of PA that Guzman will have, but Bergen put up those stats for a lot of years in a row:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bergebi01.shtml
Smocko
but the worst player in baseball is Rafael Palmeiro, who is 2 for 26 since his suspension and is on the DL again.
[Edited on 9-9-2005 by Smocko]
September 09, 2005 at 11:28PM View BBCode
Jose Macias ... Brad Ausmus ... Timo Perez ... Joe McEwing ... Neifi Perez ..but the worst player in baseball is Rafael Palmeiro, who is 2 for 26 since his suspension and is on the DL again.
[Edited on 9-9-2005 by Smocko]
Cubsfan13
September 09, 2005 at 11:31PM View BBCode
I thought it was funny how people kept talking about how great Perez was playing when Nomar was out. Macias doesn't play enough to qualify. Timo gets a pass for having an awesome name.
lvnwrth
See, the problem with baseball is twofold. The players really ARE that greedy. BUT, management really IS that stupid!
September 09, 2005 at 11:38PM View BBCode
Wasn't Guzman one of the Nats very first free agent signings? Guess that qualifies as a bonehead maneuver, Mr. Bowden.See, the problem with baseball is twofold. The players really ARE that greedy. BUT, management really IS that stupid!
Smocko
September 09, 2005 at 11:42PM View BBCode
Guzman is in the first year of a 4-year, $16 million dollar contract.
ME
Baseball Prospectus spent the entire Cubs' section talking about how worthless Jose Macias is. In the book last year they said "Jose Macias wears 1 on the back of his jersey, which is one mroe than the number of things he does well enough to warrant a spot on a major league roster"
September 10, 2005 at 12:21AM View BBCode
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4424Baseball Prospectus spent the entire Cubs' section talking about how worthless Jose Macias is. In the book last year they said "Jose Macias wears 1 on the back of his jersey, which is one mroe than the number of things he does well enough to warrant a spot on a major league roster"
lvnwrth
September 10, 2005 at 01:38AM View BBCode
Originally posted by Smocko:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Guzman is in the first year of a 4-year, $16 million dollar contract.
Bone-Scorpion
September 10, 2005 at 04:19PM View BBCode
U guys missed Miguel Olivio. He is horrible, and came into the league with a lot of fanfare a few years ago.
lvnwrth
Gonzalez declined! :o:lol:
Since then, "Juan Gone (on the DL)" has played a grand total of 326 major league games, and hit 72 home runs.
Math was never my strong suit, but it appears that SO FAR he is down about $36 million on that decision. Not to mention the fact that he is probably finished, and would have had 2 more years to run on the extension, had he accepted. That should run his total losses up to somewhere around $60 million.
Why would Detroit offer a guy like Gonzalez, with his history of injury problems, 8 years of guaranteed money? And how could Gonzalez turn it down?
As I said earlier, the players REALLY ARE THAT GREEDY; and the owners REALLY ARE THAT STUPID!
September 10, 2005 at 04:36PM View BBCode
My favorite has to be Juan Gonzalez. During the 2000 season, the Tigers tried to sign him to an 8-year, $120+ million extension. :oGonzalez declined! :o:lol:
Since then, "Juan Gone (on the DL)" has played a grand total of 326 major league games, and hit 72 home runs.
Math was never my strong suit, but it appears that SO FAR he is down about $36 million on that decision. Not to mention the fact that he is probably finished, and would have had 2 more years to run on the extension, had he accepted. That should run his total losses up to somewhere around $60 million.
Why would Detroit offer a guy like Gonzalez, with his history of injury problems, 8 years of guaranteed money? And how could Gonzalez turn it down?
As I said earlier, the players REALLY ARE THAT GREEDY; and the owners REALLY ARE THAT STUPID!
Cubsfan13
[Edited on 9-10-2005 by Cubsfan13]
September 10, 2005 at 04:37PM View BBCode
To be fair..Gonzalez hated Detroit. I don't think it was the money. Not that he's not an idiot.[Edited on 9-10-2005 by Cubsfan13]
tysonlowery
September 10, 2005 at 04:52PM View BBCode
Purely on the stats though - I think Guzman may be having the worst season of all time by a postion player.
lvnwrth
:spin:
September 10, 2005 at 04:54PM View BBCode
Hmmm...what else do I have to do this morning? www.baseball-reference.com:spin:
lvnwrth
Format is NAME, YR, PA, BA, OBP, SLG, OPS
Dal Maxvill, 1969, 416, .175, .263, .228, .491
Dal Maxvill, 1970, 450, .201, .287, .223, .510
Funny thing about Maxvill...he had the best season of his career in 1968, the famed year of the pitcher! Go figure. :puzzled::lol:
Bobby Wine, 1967, 392, .190, .249, .267, .516
Hal Lanier, 1967, 541, .213, .239, .255, .494
Tom Veryzer, 1977, 366, .197, .230, .254, .484
Of course, you could argue that, based on offensive context of the eras in which they played, Guzman is still much worse than any of these guys.
September 10, 2005 at 05:10PM View BBCode
Here are some other candidates. I used a cut-off of at least 350 PA, so that we're really talking about guys who actually played and genuinely stunk up the joint.Format is NAME, YR, PA, BA, OBP, SLG, OPS
Dal Maxvill, 1969, 416, .175, .263, .228, .491
Dal Maxvill, 1970, 450, .201, .287, .223, .510
Funny thing about Maxvill...he had the best season of his career in 1968, the famed year of the pitcher! Go figure. :puzzled::lol:
Bobby Wine, 1967, 392, .190, .249, .267, .516
Hal Lanier, 1967, 541, .213, .239, .255, .494
Tom Veryzer, 1977, 366, .197, .230, .254, .484
Of course, you could argue that, based on offensive context of the eras in which they played, Guzman is still much worse than any of these guys.
ShaggySanchez
Jim Bowden is an idiot, as a Reds fan I never thought I would see the end of bad signings and trades by that guy. He gave D. Graves 6+ mill/yr, S.Casey 8+mill/yr to name a few but also built pitching staffs around Jimmy Haynes, Paul Wilson, and the great Jimmy Anderson. The only reason he gets the credit he does is because Peter Gammons loves him because Bowden loves to talk and get rumors spread. It is sad to leave an organization and be known more for wearing leather pants to the games and nightclubs while cheating on your wife than doing anything else.
Sadly though our inept organization found the only GM other than Ed Wade of Philly that is worse than Jimbo, Dan O'Brien. Dan actually said on the radio that when they looked at Milton's career they saw that he had won a lot of games and that is what made them want to sign him. He actually discounted his ERA, WHIP, and HRs allowed saying that Milton was a guy that would get wins and those numbers wouldn't really matter.:puzzled:
September 10, 2005 at 10:55PM View BBCode
Originally posted by lvnwrth
Wasn't Guzman one of the Nats very first free agent signings? Guess that qualifies as a bonehead maneuver, Mr. Bowden.
See, the problem with baseball is twofold. The players really ARE that greedy. BUT, management really IS that stupid!
Jim Bowden is an idiot, as a Reds fan I never thought I would see the end of bad signings and trades by that guy. He gave D. Graves 6+ mill/yr, S.Casey 8+mill/yr to name a few but also built pitching staffs around Jimmy Haynes, Paul Wilson, and the great Jimmy Anderson. The only reason he gets the credit he does is because Peter Gammons loves him because Bowden loves to talk and get rumors spread. It is sad to leave an organization and be known more for wearing leather pants to the games and nightclubs while cheating on your wife than doing anything else.
Sadly though our inept organization found the only GM other than Ed Wade of Philly that is worse than Jimbo, Dan O'Brien. Dan actually said on the radio that when they looked at Milton's career they saw that he had won a lot of games and that is what made them want to sign him. He actually discounted his ERA, WHIP, and HRs allowed saying that Milton was a guy that would get wins and those numbers wouldn't really matter.:puzzled:
ME
Jim Bowden a week or so ago complained that the team was playing so poorly. He also brought in worthless Castilla, though to his credit Loaiza wasn't a bad signing.
[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2662]This guy[/url] is just a backup and only has 115 PA so he doesn't outdo Guzman in the negative counting stats categories, but he certainly is ahuge contributor to his team losing whenever he plays, and for a legitimate pennant contender, no less.
September 11, 2005 at 12:10AM View BBCode
I don't think Ed Wade is a horrible GM, he's not a good one, but he's not that bad.Jim Bowden a week or so ago complained that the team was playing so poorly. He also brought in worthless Castilla, though to his credit Loaiza wasn't a bad signing.
[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2662]This guy[/url] is just a backup and only has 115 PA so he doesn't outdo Guzman in the negative counting stats categories, but he certainly is ahuge contributor to his team losing whenever he plays, and for a legitimate pennant contender, no less.
Smocko
September 11, 2005 at 12:41AM View BBCode
You don't think Wade is a bad GM ? Check out [url=http://www.fireedwade.com]this site[/url].Pages: 1 2