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Smocko
I - N - C - I - D - E - N - T
April 15, 2005 at 03:41AM View BBCode
I guess I'll be the one to start a discussion. You saw the footage; what do you think?
youngallstar
April 15, 2005 at 03:53AM View BBCode
The fan was in the wrong and he was arrested like he should have been. Sheffield might have overreacted a little but im not sure if he was hit in the face or not. If he was than I might have reactied the same. Props to the Red Sock employee for acting quickly
broady
April 15, 2005 at 03:55AM View BBCode
disgraceful. the yanks shouldve walked from the field in protest of that fucking behaviour....
DeVeau31
I feel bad for Jodi as she can't even leave her house because it's surrounded by news stations and her phone has been ringing off the hook since last night.
April 15, 2005 at 01:31PM View BBCode
I work with his fiancee and have bought tickets from him many times in the past. He has 7 season tickets right there and has had those seats for over 10 years. He never touched Sheffield, he was reachig down for the ball and when he realized it wasn't up near the top of the wall, he pulled away and backed off. He never made contact with Sheffield.I feel bad for Jodi as she can't even leave her house because it's surrounded by news stations and her phone has been ringing off the hook since last night.
FuriousGiorge
It's reasonable to think that he was going for the ball rather than trying to hit Sheffield. But maybe this incident will teach him to PAY ATTENTION WHEN HE'S AT THE DAMN GAME.
April 15, 2005 at 02:53PM View BBCode
So if he didn't touch Sheffield, who did?It's reasonable to think that he was going for the ball rather than trying to hit Sheffield. But maybe this incident will teach him to PAY ATTENTION WHEN HE'S AT THE DAMN GAME.
KegRollers
From the video, it doesn't look like the fan hit Sheffield, but if he did, it was his elbow as he brought his hand back up from the other side of the wall. Sheffield definately over reacted, and I thought we might have had another Artest moment... If Sheffield isn't suspended for throwing that half-assed push/punch, thats bullshit. Yes, it was the fan's fault, but so was the dick who threw the cup. Suspend the roid-raging meathead, and lets move on.
April 15, 2005 at 03:47PM View BBCode
Alcohol is a wonderful thing. First Flutie is hammered when he catches a foul ball, and they try to interview him on NESN. Granted, it wasn't Broadway Joe trying to make out with Suzy Colbert (sp), but you could tell he was trying way too hard not to slur his words. Then, this guy who was obviously drunk, missed the ball and grazed Gary's face, or decided it was a good idea to take a swing at him... either way, alcohol impares judgement.From the video, it doesn't look like the fan hit Sheffield, but if he did, it was his elbow as he brought his hand back up from the other side of the wall. Sheffield definately over reacted, and I thought we might have had another Artest moment... If Sheffield isn't suspended for throwing that half-assed push/punch, thats bullshit. Yes, it was the fan's fault, but so was the dick who threw the cup. Suspend the roid-raging meathead, and lets move on.
DeVeau31
Sheffield was out of line for throwing a punch into the stands, and so was the loser a couple seats over for throwing his beer on Sheff.
April 15, 2005 at 04:19PM View BBCode
Nobody hit Sheffield, he's making it up. Chris noticed that Sheffield was right in front of him and that's when he moved back, he was paying attention. He was looking at the ball and when he realized it wasn't bouncing up the wall, he looked up and saw Sheffield right there and immediately backed off.Sheffield was out of line for throwing a punch into the stands, and so was the loser a couple seats over for throwing his beer on Sheff.
FuriousGiorge
He wasn't paying attention. If he was he wouldn't have reached for a ball that was in play in the first place, and he certainly wouldn't have reached for a ball that the right fielder was in pursuit of. Either that, or he just didn't care. "Immediately backed off"? Have you seen the tape? He swiped his hand down there as Sheffield was picking up the ball.
Your friend was the person out of line. I understand that you want to believe only the things that portray his part in the incident as positive, but you need to turn your bullshit detector up.
April 15, 2005 at 05:17PM View BBCode
He's making it up, that makes sense. So of all the times he's ever gone to get a ball at the wall, and all the fans who've reached for the ball to try to pick it up, he chooses last night to decide to pretend that someone hit him. Okay.He wasn't paying attention. If he was he wouldn't have reached for a ball that was in play in the first place, and he certainly wouldn't have reached for a ball that the right fielder was in pursuit of. Either that, or he just didn't care. "Immediately backed off"? Have you seen the tape? He swiped his hand down there as Sheffield was picking up the ball.
Your friend was the person out of line. I understand that you want to believe only the things that portray his part in the incident as positive, but you need to turn your bullshit detector up.
DeVeau31
He was trying to get the ball, is that so absurd to understand? He immediately backed off when he saw Sheffield, yes.
April 15, 2005 at 05:31PM View BBCode
ok, so of the 800+ games he's been to in those seats he chose last night to try and hit an outfielder? Gimme a break.He was trying to get the ball, is that so absurd to understand? He immediately backed off when he saw Sheffield, yes.
youngallstar
April 15, 2005 at 05:32PM View BBCode
If you look at the tape you will see that he did not immediatly back off
DeVeau31
April 15, 2005 at 05:47PM View BBCode
Once he saw Sheffield he did. I've seen it about 9000 times. He was looking at the ball, not at Sheffield and as soon as he saw Sheffield, he backed off, why do you think Sheffield's punch didn't hit him? If he had stood there, he would have gotten clocked by Sheff's glove.
skierdude44
As far as Sheff's reaction well what do you expect him to do? He's trying to dig the ball out of the corner and continue with the play and somebody takes a swipe at him. He gets the guy away from him, throws the ball back in, and then controlled himself. After he threw the ball in is when he really showed restraint. Obviously he wanted to clock the guy but he kept his cool and thought better of it. The Red Sox security did a great job. That guard was in position to difuse the situation as quick as possible and probably prevented the incident from becoming worse.
Hopefully fans will realize that you just can't touch a player and interfere with the play. Unfortunately the penalties are not steep enough to persuade people not to do this. This guy was ejected from the ball game, that's it. Not arrested, nothing. After Varitek caught Sierra's pop up to end the game another crazy jumped out of the stands, charged home plate and attempted to slide across it. Several Red Sox security guards grabbed him almost immediately. You can't run on the field, you can't interfere with a play, and you can't touch a player. It's pretty simple. And there are very few people who do this but they ruin it for the rest of the people that come to enjoy a ballgame. In Europe they have built moats around soccer stadiums and have put barbed wire up to keep the fans off the field because it has gotten so bad over there. Hopefully that kind of stuff won't be required in this country.
April 15, 2005 at 06:53PM View BBCode
Please. He took a swipe at Sheffield. He came nowhere near the ball. He also did not back off. Instead of pulling his hand up out of the way he followed through. And how could you tell that he was looking at the ball and not Sheffield? The ball was hugging the wall so he would have had to be bent over the wall to see it and Sheffield was right there as well. Also I don't think that the beer was actually thrown at Sheff, it just got knocked out in the chaos. The only person out of line was the guy who took a swipe at Sheffield. You are not supposed to interfere with the play so reaching over to grab the ball is a no-no in the first place. Secondly, no matter how much you pay for those seats you still don't have the right to touch a player. And be reasonable and think about the situation. If the guy hadn't touched Sheffield why would he have reacted like he did? If he hadn't touched him Sheff would have immediately fired the ball back in and got back in position for the next pitch.As far as Sheff's reaction well what do you expect him to do? He's trying to dig the ball out of the corner and continue with the play and somebody takes a swipe at him. He gets the guy away from him, throws the ball back in, and then controlled himself. After he threw the ball in is when he really showed restraint. Obviously he wanted to clock the guy but he kept his cool and thought better of it. The Red Sox security did a great job. That guard was in position to difuse the situation as quick as possible and probably prevented the incident from becoming worse.
Hopefully fans will realize that you just can't touch a player and interfere with the play. Unfortunately the penalties are not steep enough to persuade people not to do this. This guy was ejected from the ball game, that's it. Not arrested, nothing. After Varitek caught Sierra's pop up to end the game another crazy jumped out of the stands, charged home plate and attempted to slide across it. Several Red Sox security guards grabbed him almost immediately. You can't run on the field, you can't interfere with a play, and you can't touch a player. It's pretty simple. And there are very few people who do this but they ruin it for the rest of the people that come to enjoy a ballgame. In Europe they have built moats around soccer stadiums and have put barbed wire up to keep the fans off the field because it has gotten so bad over there. Hopefully that kind of stuff won't be required in this country.
whiskybear
Here's my problem: that fan is a customer. Sure, he violated the rules by reaching for a ball in play. Have security escort him out of the stadium. But don't justify Sheffield's taking a swipe at him, either.
You're a grocery clerk. Someone comes in, buys a loaf of bread, some steaks, and a six-pack of beer. After paying for his groceries, he cracks the beer and intentionally spills some on you. Or he swipes a gallon of milk out of your hands, and it busts open on the floor. If you throw a punch at him, do you think you're coming back to work the next day?
April 15, 2005 at 06:56PM View BBCode
The fan clearly acted poorly in reaching for a ball in play; grazing or nearly grazing Sheffield was an unfortunate accident.Here's my problem: that fan is a customer. Sure, he violated the rules by reaching for a ball in play. Have security escort him out of the stadium. But don't justify Sheffield's taking a swipe at him, either.
You're a grocery clerk. Someone comes in, buys a loaf of bread, some steaks, and a six-pack of beer. After paying for his groceries, he cracks the beer and intentionally spills some on you. Or he swipes a gallon of milk out of your hands, and it busts open on the floor. If you throw a punch at him, do you think you're coming back to work the next day?
DeVeau31
April 15, 2005 at 07:01PM View BBCode
I will agree that Chris was out of line for reaching over the wall, but he never made contact with Sheff nor did he attempt to. No matter the situation, Sheffield has no right to take a swing into the crowd. What if he hit a woman or a little kid(my son's first ever Sox game was in those exact seats)? Sheffield's reaction was FAR worse than Chris'.
skierdude44
April 15, 2005 at 07:03PM View BBCode
Sheffield didn't hit the guy and your scenario doesn't really fit what happened in this situation. It's more like this. You're a chef. You're back in the kitchen frying a chicken or whatever an unsatisfied customer comes up behind you and slaps the spatula out of your hand. Naturally if someone takes a swipe at you when you are trying to do your job and you don't see it coming its going to anger you and you are going to want to get them away from you. That's what Sheff did.
DeVeau31
April 15, 2005 at 07:04PM View BBCode
except Chris didn't hit Sheff, would have been a good analogy if he had though.
skierdude44
April 15, 2005 at 07:10PM View BBCode
Your buddy says he didn't hit him and we're all supposed to believe that? And why Sheff make up something like that? If the guy didn't hit him then there is no reasonable explanation for why he would react like that. Nice try though.
DeVeau31
Sheff reacted the way he did because he said "the guy tried to punch me in the face", not that he DID, but he TRIED. After watching the tape, Chris didn't try to punch him in the face which is obvious, so Sheffield over-reacted like the roid-raged lunatic he is.
April 15, 2005 at 07:14PM View BBCode
If Chris had hit him, then Sheff would have filed a statement with the Red Sox when they asked him to, but he declined. He also could have pressed charges, which he also declined.Sheff reacted the way he did because he said "the guy tried to punch me in the face", not that he DID, but he TRIED. After watching the tape, Chris didn't try to punch him in the face which is obvious, so Sheffield over-reacted like the roid-raged lunatic he is.
skierdude44
Sheff also said, "I felt something touch my face and I thought my lip was busted."
April 15, 2005 at 07:17PM View BBCode
Originally posted by DeVeau31
If Chris had hit him, then Sheff would have filed a statement with the Red Sox when they asked him to, but he declined. He also could have pressed charges, which he also declined.
Sheff reacted the way he did because he said "the guy tried to punch me in the face", not that he DID, but he TRIED. After watching the tape, Chris didn't try to punch him in the face which is obvious, so Sheffield over-reacted like the roid-raged lunatic he is.
Sheff also said, "I felt something touch my face and I thought my lip was busted."
FiveToolPlayer
Also, Yankee fans, please don't start with the "Red Sox fans are idiots and the Yankees should have walked off the field". Both sets of fans are emotionally charged up at those games. I've been to tons of Sox/Yanks games and all of the fans are going crazy and are on edge. The Sox fans threw stuff on the field a few years back in the ALCS after two horrendous calls and they had to clear the field. My buddy even told me that he missed hitting Ricky Ledee in the head with a full soda by about a foot. Also, the Yankees did the same thing last year at Yankee Stadium. There are fights all the time at each stadium between opposing fans. Plus, the Yankee fans in the bleachers used to be notorious for "beer in the face" when there was a deep fly ball to the wall. All of these fans are passionaltely nuts. That's part of what makes the rivalry great.
April 15, 2005 at 07:35PM View BBCode
The guy clearly made contact with Sheffield. There are two angles they are showing. The first is the natural angle and it's hard to tell. The second is from the first base side (Doug Flutie's side) and you can see Sheffield's head snap back a bit when the guy's arm goes by. Of course your friends are going to tell you he didn't hit him. If he did, your friend would look like a huge jerk and may have possible legal actions taken against him for battery. I doubt they would appreciate it if they told you he hit him and then you posted it on message boards like this one so I'm sure they're not even giving people the chance. I'm not sure whether the guy was taking a swipe at the ball or not but it doesn't look as if he's looking at the ball when it goes by. My initial reaction was that he was watching the runners and waving them in.Also, Yankee fans, please don't start with the "Red Sox fans are idiots and the Yankees should have walked off the field". Both sets of fans are emotionally charged up at those games. I've been to tons of Sox/Yanks games and all of the fans are going crazy and are on edge. The Sox fans threw stuff on the field a few years back in the ALCS after two horrendous calls and they had to clear the field. My buddy even told me that he missed hitting Ricky Ledee in the head with a full soda by about a foot. Also, the Yankees did the same thing last year at Yankee Stadium. There are fights all the time at each stadium between opposing fans. Plus, the Yankee fans in the bleachers used to be notorious for "beer in the face" when there was a deep fly ball to the wall. All of these fans are passionaltely nuts. That's part of what makes the rivalry great.
barterer2002
I think Joe Torre's comments were over the top and uninformed but I don't think that's unexpected from him.
I think it was a confluence of events that several people, acting in a split second all made poor choices. Tom, your friend should have backed away from the play, regardless of whether he was taking a swing at Sheffield or not he was wrong the minute he started leaning over the fence. That ball's a live ball and the outfielder's trying to make a play, what possible excuse can he have for being over the fence. Whatever he was doing, he shouldn't have been. Sheffield was wrong for taking the push and for going back half cocked as it were. Clearly the testostrone was flowing in him and he made a poor judgement in pushing your friend but made a better judgement in not going after him. The guy next to your friend was clearly wrong. He was leaning over trying to catch a ball in play and clearly interfearing with the outfielder. He also started getting into Sheffield's face when he came in and started jawing with them again. The guy with the beer is a jerk who hides behind the actions of others. A two bit dickstein who deserves the underside of a shoe. Thats my take.
April 15, 2005 at 07:39PM View BBCode
It appears to me from watching the tape that Tom's friend Chris was not really trying to hit Sheffield. If you'll notice his arm is running in a parallel position to the wall, almost like he's trying to pull the guy in the red shirt away from the play. On the other hand, I believe Sheffield when he says something hit him in the mouth. It seems likely to me that your friend's elbow got him in the mouth and I think we can all agree that in a similar situation when we don't exactly see what's happening and we get hit in the mouth we'd react in much the same manner Sheffield did. I would also disagree that the guy two seats down simply had his beer jostled. It looks to me as if he's throwing it on Sheffield before he's bumped away.I think Joe Torre's comments were over the top and uninformed but I don't think that's unexpected from him.
I think it was a confluence of events that several people, acting in a split second all made poor choices. Tom, your friend should have backed away from the play, regardless of whether he was taking a swing at Sheffield or not he was wrong the minute he started leaning over the fence. That ball's a live ball and the outfielder's trying to make a play, what possible excuse can he have for being over the fence. Whatever he was doing, he shouldn't have been. Sheffield was wrong for taking the push and for going back half cocked as it were. Clearly the testostrone was flowing in him and he made a poor judgement in pushing your friend but made a better judgement in not going after him. The guy next to your friend was clearly wrong. He was leaning over trying to catch a ball in play and clearly interfearing with the outfielder. He also started getting into Sheffield's face when he came in and started jawing with them again. The guy with the beer is a jerk who hides behind the actions of others. A two bit dickstein who deserves the underside of a shoe. Thats my take.
whiskybear
All right, I quit this circle-jerk. I'm with you, Goatman.
April 15, 2005 at 07:54PM View BBCode
Originally posted by drunkengoat
Meh, what a comeback by the Red Sox, eh? :D
All right, I quit this circle-jerk. I'm with you, Goatman.