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Old Forum Index » Football League Forums » Premium (Multi-Season) Leagues » Franco Harris Football League » For those who have minds lets them think case study #1 of 12 on IC's
geosfreddy
To start --- I have become a laboratory human "love rat genome too much to use this cliche"
Several things stand out in getting rookies to be studs.
#1 get em with good attributes where it counts and very young in the draft. If they have red letter POT AND ATT chances are they will become long term benefits with no exceptions. I will start with a couple of teams.
Before this I have noticed players whom you risk by playing almost full time at 21 develop very well for 4 years. what this can mean is on average 30conversions in position + drills x 4 = 120--- this is GOOOOOOOD. even the D guys have a shot if they fail may be time to dump em. When I say Full time I mean full time.
case # 1 --- http://football.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=3404605&displaytab=imps
Was ranked as a 4 rounder if not later after 400 minutes of play will now serve for plenty of quality seasons. varied his drills to get the best of all worlds. Should be a top 10 er.
I saw his conversions and knew he was ready.
Case # 2 --- http://football.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=3332598&displaytab=imps
I made a joke about his arm getting the ball missfired to the moon lolwhen blakjakshalak drafted him great potential and an attitude to envy -- the joke was a compliment this 5th rounder should get to b+ acc and then a- very very shortly by 27-28. put the missing pieces around and simbowl ????? try to match these improvements?????
Now about working certain guys to the bone and why? I have been siming for well over a year now and never had a HB grade up at any time after looking at things 1 thing made me a bit better---- realizing some guys will need plenty of play time My weasle of a running back K. Racoon was nothing more than a dumper when drafted but with solid POT and ATT bearing the early pain developed him quickly at an early age -
http://football.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=3404707&displaytab=imps
Missed opportunities to develop young guys after what I saw.
http://football.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=3404671&displaytab=imps
http://football.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=3404644&displaytab=imps
So My first observations only to start -- 21 to 23 year olds you see that are developing need to play and get those max conversions before it's too late. those A doubles help later but may not be needed early on. Get a godd QB with carry who is not ready just use him as a running back so he can develop. DUHHHHH.
If you have late picks look at the 20 year old's that you may want to risk a late pick for think of it this way 4 years of 30 Ic's 4x 30 nice---but not always the case...
Just a first general observation for now next I'll throw in a case study of our QB's a few seasons ago.
PS--- congrats to our play off teams good luck to all and bravo to our 2 first time contenders.... BRAVO....
[Edited on 9-21-2015 by geosfreddy]
For those who have minds lets them think case study #1 of 12 on IC's
September 21, 2015 at 10:31AM View BBCode
Over the last few weeks The only free time available to me has been to carefully look at player improvements and I wish to relate some findings that may or may NOT NOT NOT be of any help. Pay careful attention there are plenty of positives but pain must be part of the process.To start --- I have become a laboratory human "love rat genome too much to use this cliche"
Several things stand out in getting rookies to be studs.
#1 get em with good attributes where it counts and very young in the draft. If they have red letter POT AND ATT chances are they will become long term benefits with no exceptions. I will start with a couple of teams.
Before this I have noticed players whom you risk by playing almost full time at 21 develop very well for 4 years. what this can mean is on average 30conversions in position + drills x 4 = 120--- this is GOOOOOOOD. even the D guys have a shot if they fail may be time to dump em. When I say Full time I mean full time.
case # 1 --- http://football.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=3404605&displaytab=imps
Was ranked as a 4 rounder if not later after 400 minutes of play will now serve for plenty of quality seasons. varied his drills to get the best of all worlds. Should be a top 10 er.
I saw his conversions and knew he was ready.
Case # 2 --- http://football.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=3332598&displaytab=imps
I made a joke about his arm getting the ball missfired to the moon lolwhen blakjakshalak drafted him great potential and an attitude to envy -- the joke was a compliment this 5th rounder should get to b+ acc and then a- very very shortly by 27-28. put the missing pieces around and simbowl ????? try to match these improvements?????
Now about working certain guys to the bone and why? I have been siming for well over a year now and never had a HB grade up at any time after looking at things 1 thing made me a bit better---- realizing some guys will need plenty of play time My weasle of a running back K. Racoon was nothing more than a dumper when drafted but with solid POT and ATT bearing the early pain developed him quickly at an early age -
http://football.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=3404707&displaytab=imps
Missed opportunities to develop young guys after what I saw.
http://football.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=3404671&displaytab=imps
http://football.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=3404644&displaytab=imps
So My first observations only to start -- 21 to 23 year olds you see that are developing need to play and get those max conversions before it's too late. those A doubles help later but may not be needed early on. Get a godd QB with carry who is not ready just use him as a running back so he can develop. DUHHHHH.
If you have late picks look at the 20 year old's that you may want to risk a late pick for think of it this way 4 years of 30 Ic's 4x 30 nice---but not always the case...
Just a first general observation for now next I'll throw in a case study of our QB's a few seasons ago.
PS--- congrats to our play off teams good luck to all and bravo to our 2 first time contenders.... BRAVO....
[Edited on 9-21-2015 by geosfreddy]
vonjoho
Ed Bell CB - I took him first last draft, and put him on the active roster. Couldn't pull the trigger on him starting though with the talent that i already had, he was intended to be a future starter. With A potential and A- attitude, he completed 20/60 total IC's, not that impressive. However, taking out the -5 to strength, he gained 7/11 jump IC's and 3/6 Agility IC's from drills which is quite good. the other 'skill' stats improved at approximately 50-67% for position which is really good as well.
For comparison purposes, i took Bubba Rosato CB with my second pick. D+ potential and A+ attitude, he started as FS for me this season but his IC conversion was 18/80 ouch. he will get better the more he plays, but he won't make any drastic improvements through his career.
That is my two cents because i thought that it was a good comparison to throw in the mix.
September 21, 2015 at 05:03PM View BBCode
I believe owners learning and understanding the importance of development and the different stats that improve a players chance to convert IC's is imperative to a good draft.Ed Bell CB - I took him first last draft, and put him on the active roster. Couldn't pull the trigger on him starting though with the talent that i already had, he was intended to be a future starter. With A potential and A- attitude, he completed 20/60 total IC's, not that impressive. However, taking out the -5 to strength, he gained 7/11 jump IC's and 3/6 Agility IC's from drills which is quite good. the other 'skill' stats improved at approximately 50-67% for position which is really good as well.
For comparison purposes, i took Bubba Rosato CB with my second pick. D+ potential and A+ attitude, he started as FS for me this season but his IC conversion was 18/80 ouch. he will get better the more he plays, but he won't make any drastic improvements through his career.
That is my two cents because i thought that it was a good comparison to throw in the mix.
geosfreddy
the ouch guy turned 24 in Oct and still gave 20 pts as he played deep 400+ min with even a d letter POT still a good stat due to play. had he not improved at all he would have been wasted --that is why we should always study the IC charts of our teams../ Bell on the other hand did miss a probable 10-13 improvements. think of it this way he only played 65 or so minutes got 36 instead of 53 chances of those missed 17 IC should have converted 10 or so. As he also played the year at 23.
But that is where I meant sometimes we have to take our lumps to develop if we are ready to risk for long term success.
September 21, 2015 at 05:27PM View BBCode
Originally posted by vonjoho
I believe owners learning and understanding the importance of development and the different stats that improve a players chance to convert IC's is imperative to a good draft.
Ed Bell CB - I took him first last draft, and put him on the active roster. Couldn't pull the trigger on him starting though with the talent that i already had, he was intended to be a future starter. With A potential and A- attitude, he completed 20/60 total IC's, not that impressive. However, taking out the -5 to strength, he gained 7/11 jump IC's and 3/6 Agility IC's from drills which is quite good. the other 'skill' stats improved at approximately 50-67% for position which is really good as well.
For comparison purposes, i took Bubba Rosato CB with my second pick. D+ potential and A+ attitude, he started as FS for me this season but his IC conversion was 18/80 ouch. he will get better the more he plays, but he won't make any drastic improvements through his career.
That is my two cents because i thought that it was a good comparison to throw in the mix.
the ouch guy turned 24 in Oct and still gave 20 pts as he played deep 400+ min with even a d letter POT still a good stat due to play. had he not improved at all he would have been wasted --that is why we should always study the IC charts of our teams../ Bell on the other hand did miss a probable 10-13 improvements. think of it this way he only played 65 or so minutes got 36 instead of 53 chances of those missed 17 IC should have converted 10 or so. As he also played the year at 23.
But that is where I meant sometimes we have to take our lumps to develop if we are ready to risk for long term success.
Aparicio
Veery thought-provoking post.
Ina 'nother League, a "Half - A$$" QB was drafted early by another team.
The Catch: He had A+ Throw Power outta the gate, AND A+ POT & ATT.
He became the "Star of the League", after 5 years.
-AP
September 22, 2015 at 10:30PM View BBCode
(Hunh!?)Veery thought-provoking post.
Ina 'nother League, a "Half - A$$" QB was drafted early by another team.
The Catch: He had A+ Throw Power outta the gate, AND A+ POT & ATT.
He became the "Star of the League", after 5 years.
-AP
blakjakshalak
I wont lie and say I targeted him. He was plan D. Actually, I whiffed on the QBs I targeted and ended up getting TT in the 5th. He was a backup his 1st year but I noticed he was converting ICs at a ridiculous rate. Improvements is something I watch closely. So, knowing that Rozumek was not a long term option and knowing that it would take several seasons to fill all the holes on the Feds, I decided to start Tebow to max out on IC chances, just to see what would happen. He's been maddeningly inconsistent but has improved noticeably year over year. At 25, he is on the the steep part of the improvement curve for throwing accuracy and execution for QBs. He already has an A+ throwing strength. He could be quite good before he's done.
September 23, 2015 at 01:06AM View BBCode
Lol...the secret is out. I have been marveling at how Tim Tebow has improved. He has converted 40+% of his ICs his entire pro career (he did again this year). And they are not empty ICs he is converting (like tackle or run blocking for a QB). He's converting in his core attributes.I wont lie and say I targeted him. He was plan D. Actually, I whiffed on the QBs I targeted and ended up getting TT in the 5th. He was a backup his 1st year but I noticed he was converting ICs at a ridiculous rate. Improvements is something I watch closely. So, knowing that Rozumek was not a long term option and knowing that it would take several seasons to fill all the holes on the Feds, I decided to start Tebow to max out on IC chances, just to see what would happen. He's been maddeningly inconsistent but has improved noticeably year over year. At 25, he is on the the steep part of the improvement curve for throwing accuracy and execution for QBs. He already has an A+ throwing strength. He could be quite good before he's done.
geosfreddy
As i stressed The key is to max out playing time as i have seen guys who start at 21 and with later birthdays seem to get the conversions almost with ease where POT and ATT almost seem minimal at this age. I'll throw in some key observations with some interesting links players may fin very useful to help in the draft - (later rounds as well) you may be surprised it may lead to making the later picks wort a dime or so.
September 23, 2015 at 01:30AM View BBCode
Originally posted by Aparicio
(Hunh!?)
Veery thought-provoking post.
Ina 'nother League, a "Half - A$$" QB was drafted early by another team.
The Catch: He had A+ Throw Power outta the gate, AND A+ POT & ATT.
He became the "Star of the League", after 5 years.
-AP
As i stressed The key is to max out playing time as i have seen guys who start at 21 and with later birthdays seem to get the conversions almost with ease where POT and ATT almost seem minimal at this age. I'll throw in some key observations with some interesting links players may fin very useful to help in the draft - (later rounds as well) you may be surprised it may lead to making the later picks wort a dime or so.
Admin
- Young players (under 25) who are on the Inactive list will get some bonus ICs so they don't rot (starting will get them more, though).
- Any discussion on improvements with respect to age should note that each player has slightly different ages at which they improve and decline. Most, of course, will follow the average, but the total number of improvement years can be up to + or - 4 years. The only way to tell is to look at the improvement report.
- RBs start declining sooner than other positions.
- QBs develop slower but longer, they can continue to improve into their 30s.
- Improvements slow down as a player gets closer to 100 in a skill.
There is lots of detail on the improvement process at http://rules.simdynasty.com/index.php/Sim_Dynasty_Football_Game_Guide#Improvement_Mechanism .
Chris
September 06, 2016 at 05:51AM View BBCode
Some notes:- Young players (under 25) who are on the Inactive list will get some bonus ICs so they don't rot (starting will get them more, though).
- Any discussion on improvements with respect to age should note that each player has slightly different ages at which they improve and decline. Most, of course, will follow the average, but the total number of improvement years can be up to + or - 4 years. The only way to tell is to look at the improvement report.
- RBs start declining sooner than other positions.
- QBs develop slower but longer, they can continue to improve into their 30s.
- Improvements slow down as a player gets closer to 100 in a skill.
There is lots of detail on the improvement process at http://rules.simdynasty.com/index.php/Sim_Dynasty_Football_Game_Guide#Improvement_Mechanism .
Chris
geosfreddy
September 06, 2016 at 10:16AM View BBCode
Wow I can't believe we did this over a year ago. No doubt it made some of us better players and team makers.
luminafire
This caused me to have a QB at one point who was A- overall and had improved like crazy year in and year out but because he never really was getting ThrowAcc ICs even in college, he's ended up stuck with B accuracy at age 25, started slowing down immediately at age 25 and I had to almost give him away just to open up roster space for other players to develop.
I look for improvement chances in the hundreds (over two hundred ideally) in college with a conversion rate of at least 30%. Anything above 30% is a player who is developing unnaturally fast as long as the IC chances were 150-200+.
I look for players who have these traits of development who only need to improve a grade or two in one or two skills. If it's two skills, I try to make sure that the drill that improves one improves the other (strength and tackle for example are both affected by W training, speed and pursuit are both affected by S training, agility and break tackle are both linked to the F drill).
This is why I may value a DT for example whose only downfall is strength and tackle if they have a crazy improvement rate. If I a WR has B+ catch, high improvement rates and is only missing a grade in speed or agility, I target them. Often when people do their drafts I notice they will often take the "best player available right now" with diminishing returns through each round of the draft as everyone makes a run on the made-to-order stud players.
Often this causes these players who are in fact future elite players to completely fall through the cracks. For me personally, this allows me to reasonably target and successfully draft players in later rounds knowing that I only need a season or two for the improvements to make good on my return and surpass the value of the draft pick I used to acquire them.
September 06, 2016 at 10:48PM View BBCode
I've also noticed that certain players seem to lean in improving in certain areas. I've made the error in the past of drafting players based on the fact they had a high number of overall ICs but without taking note of where the ICs fell on average.This caused me to have a QB at one point who was A- overall and had improved like crazy year in and year out but because he never really was getting ThrowAcc ICs even in college, he's ended up stuck with B accuracy at age 25, started slowing down immediately at age 25 and I had to almost give him away just to open up roster space for other players to develop.
I look for improvement chances in the hundreds (over two hundred ideally) in college with a conversion rate of at least 30%. Anything above 30% is a player who is developing unnaturally fast as long as the IC chances were 150-200+.
I look for players who have these traits of development who only need to improve a grade or two in one or two skills. If it's two skills, I try to make sure that the drill that improves one improves the other (strength and tackle for example are both affected by W training, speed and pursuit are both affected by S training, agility and break tackle are both linked to the F drill).
This is why I may value a DT for example whose only downfall is strength and tackle if they have a crazy improvement rate. If I a WR has B+ catch, high improvement rates and is only missing a grade in speed or agility, I target them. Often when people do their drafts I notice they will often take the "best player available right now" with diminishing returns through each round of the draft as everyone makes a run on the made-to-order stud players.
Often this causes these players who are in fact future elite players to completely fall through the cracks. For me personally, this allows me to reasonably target and successfully draft players in later rounds knowing that I only need a season or two for the improvements to make good on my return and surpass the value of the draft pick I used to acquire them.
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