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TRINITY731
Not to degrade Tim Raines name, but I suggest we could call our league Rainesistan or the Peoples Republic of Raines.
Leaving league
April 03, 2012 at 05:43PM View BBCode
I will be leaving the league, I wish it could be this year but I am paid through 2 more years. If Admin can credit those years to other leagues I will do that, or just stick around and keep "The Complainers" busy with ridiculous trades every day so we can see trade protest after protest, to suck as much fun out of this game as possible. "The complainers remind me of the smelly 99% in the various cities, pretending that they are helpless, when they are just infants screaming against some one else who is trying to improve themselves.Not to degrade Tim Raines name, but I suggest we could call our league Rainesistan or the Peoples Republic of Raines.
1950srobot
I say this as a player who loves underdogs and would field nothing but B+ rated players if I could. But the B+ in this League is C- in every other League I'm in. I can't stomach what passes for talent here, outside of the clear aberrations, the studs who come along every three or four seasons, easily recognized and drafted. After ten seasons, I'd probably have built quite a team through the draft, and have lost 800+ games in the process. Unlike, say, St. Louis here, who seems perfectly content with titanically sucking (and it's a banner year in STL, as they're nearly .500 or maybe better; break out the champagne), I can't bear it.
I'm hoping Admin will step in with a solution, as there's no way I'm staying in this League another week, much less two more in-game seasons. For those with CP obligations, I'll do what I can to compensate you.
April 04, 2012 at 12:01AM View BBCode
Yes, I'm with Trinity. I'm done. I really have no way to fix my team, have no patience, am sick and f*cking tired of losing, and am extremely fed up with the garbage "talent" to be found in this League. Utter garbage. This League isn't just "down," it's direly compressed. Unless you're the genius in Washington, who seems to have the only formula for actually developing young players into anything at all, you're just floundering. This is all in the post-Black Sox WS titles world. I can't stand to watch teams with garbage players routinely cut a swath through whatever teams I field. Doesn't matter what kind of players I obtain, they are garbage.I say this as a player who loves underdogs and would field nothing but B+ rated players if I could. But the B+ in this League is C- in every other League I'm in. I can't stomach what passes for talent here, outside of the clear aberrations, the studs who come along every three or four seasons, easily recognized and drafted. After ten seasons, I'd probably have built quite a team through the draft, and have lost 800+ games in the process. Unlike, say, St. Louis here, who seems perfectly content with titanically sucking (and it's a banner year in STL, as they're nearly .500 or maybe better; break out the champagne), I can't bear it.
I'm hoping Admin will step in with a solution, as there's no way I'm staying in this League another week, much less two more in-game seasons. For those with CP obligations, I'll do what I can to compensate you.
npstamps
To address robot's comments: I've been in this league since its beginning, and I'm in no other league, so I can't compare the talent in this league with others. We all pick from the same pool so no one has an advantage over any of the other managers. It's clear that you don't have the patience to build a team because of your constant turnover of players, and giving away CPs for players who barely last the year with your team. If that's what you want to do, that's fine, but you can't build a team unless you have a plan in mind, and it's my opinion that you don't. I've been a trading partner with you on many occasions, and if I feel that the deal benefits my team, I'll accept the trade. I enjoy making trades, but with a plan in mind, not to simply trade for the sake of trading. I've seen your rants before, and I think it's unfair to the other managers in the league.
And, I think your shot at St. Louis was over the line, and unwarranted.
April 04, 2012 at 01:39PM View BBCode
I'm not a fan of the trade vote/complaint scenario. It can only lead to bad blood as we see above. Unless there appears to be collusion, which I don't believe has ever been the case in this league, you should be allowed to make whatever trades you want if you feel it helps your team.To address robot's comments: I've been in this league since its beginning, and I'm in no other league, so I can't compare the talent in this league with others. We all pick from the same pool so no one has an advantage over any of the other managers. It's clear that you don't have the patience to build a team because of your constant turnover of players, and giving away CPs for players who barely last the year with your team. If that's what you want to do, that's fine, but you can't build a team unless you have a plan in mind, and it's my opinion that you don't. I've been a trading partner with you on many occasions, and if I feel that the deal benefits my team, I'll accept the trade. I enjoy making trades, but with a plan in mind, not to simply trade for the sake of trading. I've seen your rants before, and I think it's unfair to the other managers in the league.
And, I think your shot at St. Louis was over the line, and unwarranted.
GatorBoudreaux
I don't like the trade complaint system either. It has no basis in reality, and therefore no place in the game. That said, it's certainly been needed in this league. I've seen far more complaints here than any other league I'm in. It's without a doubt though just a situational phenomenon in this league.
I may be wrong, but I don't remember seeing any trade complaints that didn't involve robot and his team. Unfortunately, there are a few owners in this league that like to take advantage of him. While I dislike the system, I did vote to overturn a couple. I'm normally of the opinion that if a guy wants to make a bad trade that's on him, but when a guy is continually getting worked over intentionally, that just doesn't sit well.
"...and am extremely fed up with the garbage "talent" to be found in this League."
Robot that's just not accurate. This league has as many red letter players as any other leagues I'm in. You need to do some real analysis on that.
"I say this as a player who loves underdogs and would field nothing but B+ rated players if I could."
That says it all robot. You can't win consistently in this game with B+ players. After all this time you still refuse to believe just how the game works. Computer code and logarithms don't comprehend underdogs. The game only knows that A is better than B+ and over the course of a season A is going to win more times than B+.
If you want to build a team that wins consistently you gather and develop as many red letter players as you can. You're doomed to be constantly frustrated unless you change the way you play the game.
CP trades are another thing I don't agree with. They have no basis in reality and shouldn't be allowed in the game. They're part of the game though so you either embrace it, live with it, or move on. This league likes CP trades, that's fine; different leagues for different folks.
April 04, 2012 at 02:53PM View BBCode
I'll probably be leaving too after my paid seasons expire. Interestingly, for the opposite reasons as the first two guys.I don't like the trade complaint system either. It has no basis in reality, and therefore no place in the game. That said, it's certainly been needed in this league. I've seen far more complaints here than any other league I'm in. It's without a doubt though just a situational phenomenon in this league.
I may be wrong, but I don't remember seeing any trade complaints that didn't involve robot and his team. Unfortunately, there are a few owners in this league that like to take advantage of him. While I dislike the system, I did vote to overturn a couple. I'm normally of the opinion that if a guy wants to make a bad trade that's on him, but when a guy is continually getting worked over intentionally, that just doesn't sit well.
"...and am extremely fed up with the garbage "talent" to be found in this League."
Robot that's just not accurate. This league has as many red letter players as any other leagues I'm in. You need to do some real analysis on that.
"I say this as a player who loves underdogs and would field nothing but B+ rated players if I could."
That says it all robot. You can't win consistently in this game with B+ players. After all this time you still refuse to believe just how the game works. Computer code and logarithms don't comprehend underdogs. The game only knows that A is better than B+ and over the course of a season A is going to win more times than B+.
If you want to build a team that wins consistently you gather and develop as many red letter players as you can. You're doomed to be constantly frustrated unless you change the way you play the game.
CP trades are another thing I don't agree with. They have no basis in reality and shouldn't be allowed in the game. They're part of the game though so you either embrace it, live with it, or move on. This league likes CP trades, that's fine; different leagues for different folks.
1950srobot
Apologize to STL, as well. No real reason to take a shot at them, aside from my own frustration.
Good luck to all.
Chad
April 04, 2012 at 05:50PM View BBCode
I really hate to leave the League, egotistically, since this is my favorite SimD team (weirdly, probably because I spent so much time trying to "fix" it) and I've always enjoyed that most of the owners have been here the whole time. I appreciate whatever advice I received, which certainly worked better in other Leagues I'm in than here.Apologize to STL, as well. No real reason to take a shot at them, aside from my own frustration.
Good luck to all.
Chad
Admin
Trade protests are not part of the game. They do not attempt to simulate real life; they exist to report abuse of the system. Unfortunately, they look like part of the game so some people use them as part of the game.
CP trades emulate trading of cash as part of trades. It was never designed to be part of the game; it is something owners came up with on their own that we didn't prevent from happening, and over time a few official rules did creep in regarding these trades. (Draft pick trades originated in a similar way until they were made "official" a couple of years later.)
Chris
April 05, 2012 at 02:47AM View BBCode
Originally posted by GatorBoudreaux
I don't like the trade complaint system either. It has no basis in reality, and therefore no place in the game.
Trade protests are not part of the game. They do not attempt to simulate real life; they exist to report abuse of the system. Unfortunately, they look like part of the game so some people use them as part of the game.
CP trades are another thing I don't agree with. They have no basis in reality and shouldn't be allowed in the game. They're part of the game though so you either embrace it, live with it, or move on. This league likes CP trades, that's fine; different leagues for different folks.
CP trades emulate trading of cash as part of trades. It was never designed to be part of the game; it is something owners came up with on their own that we didn't prevent from happening, and over time a few official rules did creep in regarding these trades. (Draft pick trades originated in a similar way until they were made "official" a couple of years later.)
Chris
DeepThreat
Seeing some of the recent trade complaints, I'm beginning to think that someone is almost just complaining each time that robot tries to make a trade. I've seen little wrong with the recent trades he's made with someone else. If he wishes to try to play the game this way, then who are we to tell him he can't?
April 05, 2012 at 06:35AM View BBCode
I'm not a fan of the complaints. While I do think that robot has been deeply taken advantage of, he's been around long enough to have figured things out. No, this isn't a shot at robot, as I do think just from some of the trade offers he's presented me in the recent past, that he's doing quite a bit better on that front overall. He's offered me some pretty fair and even trades that either I couldn't find a way to work into my plans, or simply including some waiver-wire fodder that I had on my minor league squad just to ensure I got my full ICs per game, for very similar waiver-wire fodder.Seeing some of the recent trade complaints, I'm beginning to think that someone is almost just complaining each time that robot tries to make a trade. I've seen little wrong with the recent trades he's made with someone else. If he wishes to try to play the game this way, then who are we to tell him he can't?
GatorBoudreaux
Unfortunately for sure. It's a built in part of the game when it's right there on every trade transaction. Just a simple click and it's done. It's an open invitation and very much a part of the game right now.
I'd suggest raising the degree of difficulty to making a protest. At least go back to what we had before. If someone has to take the time to actually write to Admin explaining why they suspect abuse we'll see far less protests. The well intended attempt to automate the process has only exacerbated it.
CP trades emulate the trading of cash? I don't mean to be too sarcastic here but whoever came up with that has quite an imagination. Cash equates to training other team's players??? Sorry, the absurdity of this just boggles the mind. It's totally spins realism on it's head.
Draft pick trades aren't allowed in MLB, they shouldn't be here either. At least with this one though, it's not nearly as mind-binding as cash equals training a competitors players. At least draft pick trades are part of every other sport and not a totally fabricated fantasy like the CP trade.
I'd truly love to see the rationale of the CP trade presented at the annual management meetings of MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, etc. Yes sir that's correct, we (the Red Sox) would like to send our minor leaguers to the Yankees for training. Of course we will pay them cash to use their coaches and facilities to train our players. When they are ready to make the move to the major leagues we'll take our players back ready to compete against the organization that trained them. Yes it's a great system sir, we can disband our minor leagues and they get a bunch of cash.
I like my sports sim with just a little less "fantasy game" in them. That's just me though.
I'm done now :)
April 05, 2012 at 01:48PM View BBCode
Trade protests are not part of the game. They do not attempt to simulate real life; they exist to report abuse of the system. Unfortunately, they look like part of the game so some people use them as part of the game.
Unfortunately for sure. It's a built in part of the game when it's right there on every trade transaction. Just a simple click and it's done. It's an open invitation and very much a part of the game right now.
I'd suggest raising the degree of difficulty to making a protest. At least go back to what we had before. If someone has to take the time to actually write to Admin explaining why they suspect abuse we'll see far less protests. The well intended attempt to automate the process has only exacerbated it.
CP trades emulate trading of cash as part of trades. It was never designed to be part of the game; it is something owners came up with on their own that we didn't prevent from happening, and over time a few official rules did creep in regarding these trades.
CP trades emulate the trading of cash? I don't mean to be too sarcastic here but whoever came up with that has quite an imagination. Cash equates to training other team's players??? Sorry, the absurdity of this just boggles the mind. It's totally spins realism on it's head.
(Draft pick trades originated in a similar way until they were made "official" a couple of years later.)
Draft pick trades aren't allowed in MLB, they shouldn't be here either. At least with this one though, it's not nearly as mind-binding as cash equals training a competitors players. At least draft pick trades are part of every other sport and not a totally fabricated fantasy like the CP trade.
I'd truly love to see the rationale of the CP trade presented at the annual management meetings of MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, etc. Yes sir that's correct, we (the Red Sox) would like to send our minor leaguers to the Yankees for training. Of course we will pay them cash to use their coaches and facilities to train our players. When they are ready to make the move to the major leagues we'll take our players back ready to compete against the organization that trained them. Yes it's a great system sir, we can disband our minor leagues and they get a bunch of cash.
I like my sports sim with just a little less "fantasy game" in them. That's just me though.
I'm done now :)
cone1
Robot trades. That's what he does. I've traded with him many times. He makes many terrible trades. I mean many. Like...a lot. Why, I have no idea. But I'm not going to throw him under the bus. I feel like I've fleeced him a number of times. He probably feels like he has had the better of it. I certainly don't think he cheats. As long as there is no cheating, I'm not here to babysit people who don't get good value in trades.
Lord knows I wish a few of you would have protested some of the trades I have made and thought were good.
April 05, 2012 at 10:18PM View BBCode
Why are the trade complaints so bothersome? I typically just ignore them. It does not hurt my enjoyment of the game at all.Robot trades. That's what he does. I've traded with him many times. He makes many terrible trades. I mean many. Like...a lot. Why, I have no idea. But I'm not going to throw him under the bus. I feel like I've fleeced him a number of times. He probably feels like he has had the better of it. I certainly don't think he cheats. As long as there is no cheating, I'm not here to babysit people who don't get good value in trades.
Lord knows I wish a few of you would have protested some of the trades I have made and thought were good.
cone1
April 05, 2012 at 10:24PM View BBCode
Also, as an aside, I hate to see folks leave. This league has had really good continuity with managers. We don't talk much on these boards, but I feel like I sorta know the different managers and their styles somewhat, as I spend far too much time avoiding work by checking on my fictional baseball players.
Bayside
There have been zero attempts at cheating in this league since I've been a part of it. Cheating is the only item to be examined here. Protesting a trade because an owner annoys you is not a basis for a complaint.
I rather enjoy the sporadic and illogical rants that show up from time to time. My only regret is they aren't on skype.
I would ask that if you do plan to leave please don't go out in a blaze of glory and attempt to ruin it for others. I hope you reconsider but if not, your issue is not with the majority of owners so it would be out of line to punish those you have no beef with (perceived or not). Thanks and remember, 'desk pops' are NOT a real thing.
[Edited on 4-5-2012 by Bayside]
April 05, 2012 at 11:13PM View BBCode
If anyone is interested you can just ditto both of cone1's posts for my $.02 with one very minor difference - I don't ignore the complaints. I vote 'I don't wish to vote'. Not sure that has any effect on anything but it makes me feel included in the fun.There have been zero attempts at cheating in this league since I've been a part of it. Cheating is the only item to be examined here. Protesting a trade because an owner annoys you is not a basis for a complaint.
I rather enjoy the sporadic and illogical rants that show up from time to time. My only regret is they aren't on skype.
I would ask that if you do plan to leave please don't go out in a blaze of glory and attempt to ruin it for others. I hope you reconsider but if not, your issue is not with the majority of owners so it would be out of line to punish those you have no beef with (perceived or not). Thanks and remember, 'desk pops' are NOT a real thing.
[Edited on 4-5-2012 by Bayside]
alan21615
I'm pretty quiet in this particular league, mainly because I'm still fairly new here - I don't like trade protests unless the trade is obviously taking advantage of someone (i.e. a new owner) or collusion is going on.
as to this league, Robot makes things interesting, but besides that, I don't really see anything too much different from my other leagues.
April 06, 2012 at 06:11AM View BBCode
Desk Pops... bwahahahaI'm pretty quiet in this particular league, mainly because I'm still fairly new here - I don't like trade protests unless the trade is obviously taking advantage of someone (i.e. a new owner) or collusion is going on.
as to this league, Robot makes things interesting, but besides that, I don't really see anything too much different from my other leagues.
meinrad1337
April 06, 2012 at 06:20AM View BBCode
Well...now I feel like I should extend an "offer" to Robot. Wouldn't want to make him feel like I am ignoring him.
ChipArm
As someone who likes to make deals as well, and has made plenty with Robot, I can say that he proposes twice as many deals as he makes. Some are bad, some are not. I feel he definitely gets the shortend of the stick when it comes to being criticized all the time. If anything, I thought the last trade with Brooklyn was in his favor. (Sorry Kev)
And while I like everyone, if people are annoyed enough to state they want to leave publicly, they probably should. I think we also need, as a league, to have a civilized discussion as to what is appropriate, and what is not for the league.
Chip
April 06, 2012 at 01:41PM View BBCode
Unless two owners are working in collusion to create an unfair trade - I will never uphold a protest with a yes vote. If I felt owners were cheating, I would be moving to have them expelled from the league as well.As someone who likes to make deals as well, and has made plenty with Robot, I can say that he proposes twice as many deals as he makes. Some are bad, some are not. I feel he definitely gets the shortend of the stick when it comes to being criticized all the time. If anything, I thought the last trade with Brooklyn was in his favor. (Sorry Kev)
And while I like everyone, if people are annoyed enough to state they want to leave publicly, they probably should. I think we also need, as a league, to have a civilized discussion as to what is appropriate, and what is not for the league.
Chip
TRINITY731
April 06, 2012 at 03:02PM View BBCode
Hi fellow managers. I think my unbroken rule of waiting a day before submitting a message. I was upset originally with the protest because that means I have lied or cheated; that is not who I am. I was on writing spree to admin. Finally, sending a note to the league board. I am sorry for wording. I was not sorry that it sparked conversation over protest. I really like my team and will not leave...it was a silly and childish thing to say. I like the idea of a hurdle to first enact a protest with admin before it goes to a vote. I finally got the deal done. Now I have been thinking my trade of len Leone was I taken advantage of? I personally do not think so since I offered it. However if I was why would there not be a protest for that trade? Thanks and Happy Easter
ChipArm
Thanks for sharing these thoughts, because it raises an interesting point.
Having been in trades that have been protested, and one that was overturned, in both this league and others, I know exactly how you felt. And I think it needs to be reminded to all what the league's rules around protests are - and what the implications of protests are.
"A trade should only be overturned if there is bad faith on the part of one or both of the teams involved. If both teams get something they need out of the trade and neither party is taking advantage of an unaware trading partner, the trade should stand. Overturning a trade may not be used as a strategic option. "
Whenever someone protests a trade - they are stating either one of the following (if they are following the guidelines).
1. One person is being taken advantage of (ie a new owner being fleeced)
2. Someone is cheating.
Whether or not that is the intention - that is the result.
I have felt that way about being accused, Trinity just stated he felt the same way. People I know in other league who have been involved in protests feel the same as well.
Many of us probably experienced fantasy leagues falling apart over trade protests, would be a shame for it to happen here.
April 06, 2012 at 04:48PM View BBCode
Trinity,Thanks for sharing these thoughts, because it raises an interesting point.
Having been in trades that have been protested, and one that was overturned, in both this league and others, I know exactly how you felt. And I think it needs to be reminded to all what the league's rules around protests are - and what the implications of protests are.
"A trade should only be overturned if there is bad faith on the part of one or both of the teams involved. If both teams get something they need out of the trade and neither party is taking advantage of an unaware trading partner, the trade should stand. Overturning a trade may not be used as a strategic option. "
Whenever someone protests a trade - they are stating either one of the following (if they are following the guidelines).
1. One person is being taken advantage of (ie a new owner being fleeced)
2. Someone is cheating.
Whether or not that is the intention - that is the result.
I have felt that way about being accused, Trinity just stated he felt the same way. People I know in other league who have been involved in protests feel the same as well.
Many of us probably experienced fantasy leagues falling apart over trade protests, would be a shame for it to happen here.
Pierzynski
Robot, I tried so hard to help you out during my rebuild by shipping you as many of my aging studs as I could. Yet you turned around and dumped all of them for crap! You even told me that Kato Omura (a damn fine player) was a player you wanted for years. He lasted less than a half season!!! You take good to great players and end up with a pile of #7 and 8 hitters!!
I respect everyone's right to play however they want, so I guess I need to not worry about other owners.
Trinity, thanks for staying. You've built a great franchise.
Robot, if you think this league's talent is hopeless and you hate playing, please leave. If you want to play, I'm cool with it. I just wish you'd stay still and try another way, cause you do make some good trades.
April 07, 2012 at 07:10AM View BBCode
Ive been on vacation, so this is quite the thread here. So since it seems that every other owner claims not to protest a trade, I will fess up here and admit that I once voted against a trade. Perhaps I was justified, perhaps I acted emotionally when I voted to overturn, but I did. Trinity, nothing against you but I felt that the trade you and Robot did for a pile of really good players in return for one guy was lopsided and messes with the balance of competition in the league. So thank you for re-doing that trade. I thought that was cool.Robot, I tried so hard to help you out during my rebuild by shipping you as many of my aging studs as I could. Yet you turned around and dumped all of them for crap! You even told me that Kato Omura (a damn fine player) was a player you wanted for years. He lasted less than a half season!!! You take good to great players and end up with a pile of #7 and 8 hitters!!
I respect everyone's right to play however they want, so I guess I need to not worry about other owners.
Trinity, thanks for staying. You've built a great franchise.
Robot, if you think this league's talent is hopeless and you hate playing, please leave. If you want to play, I'm cool with it. I just wish you'd stay still and try another way, cause you do make some good trades.
TRINITY731
I understand that the trade may have been to my favor, but in my mind and maybe I misunderstand the rules behind Trade Protest, but I thought it was brought into play if colude to pull off a trade that was unfair; which for the life of me why a person would do that unless looking to get the first overall pick, I may have just answered my own question! The other being an older player taking advantage of another player who is really new to the game. I was in other leagues when I first started and became wiser of it. Robot has been around for awhile and offered the trade. I like him because he send trade offer etc to make things interesting. I like sending some trades to see if we are close hoping for a response, but that does not happen very much it is usually a decline. I wish people would take the time to say. I will send you a counter, or I am more interested in this player of yours, or even I have my team where I want it and not interested. That would make things a little more fun for me.
I see you are from the bay area I am on the east coast and went there for our honeymoon and 10th anniversary. Would love to show my daughter the city, but the change from 1992 and 2002 was so drastic that people would come up and demand money and if you did not give they would spit on you, just as an aside has that become better? I was thinking about taking her in the next 2 years?
April 07, 2012 at 02:04PM View BBCode
Thanks, Pierzynski,I understand that the trade may have been to my favor, but in my mind and maybe I misunderstand the rules behind Trade Protest, but I thought it was brought into play if colude to pull off a trade that was unfair; which for the life of me why a person would do that unless looking to get the first overall pick, I may have just answered my own question! The other being an older player taking advantage of another player who is really new to the game. I was in other leagues when I first started and became wiser of it. Robot has been around for awhile and offered the trade. I like him because he send trade offer etc to make things interesting. I like sending some trades to see if we are close hoping for a response, but that does not happen very much it is usually a decline. I wish people would take the time to say. I will send you a counter, or I am more interested in this player of yours, or even I have my team where I want it and not interested. That would make things a little more fun for me.
I see you are from the bay area I am on the east coast and went there for our honeymoon and 10th anniversary. Would love to show my daughter the city, but the change from 1992 and 2002 was so drastic that people would come up and demand money and if you did not give they would spit on you, just as an aside has that become better? I was thinking about taking her in the next 2 years?
Pierzynski
April 09, 2012 at 12:56AM View BBCode
Trinity, I'll u2u you all about SF. I live in the city and I love it.Pages: 1