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Slimlizard
SO I offer it in good faith to the league to let me/us know if this is a reasonable offer/possible in our league.
Pro's for me: it temporarily relieves an overcrowded prospect pool allowing me to develop an extra player normally for one year, and one year only.
Pro's for trade partner: he gets an additional quality draft pick to beef up a depleted minor league system. The temporary loss of unused CP's (or CP's placed on marginal prospects) yields a stronger and deeper system in the future.
If this seems reasonable to everyone, I'll go ahead and post a special topic for CP trades that explains the trade with more detail.
CP's revisited
January 17, 2011 at 06:01PM View BBCode
Just for the record, I have someone who would like to take advantage of my offer of my second rounder next year (potentially #17-19 overall depending on whether Pitt/the entire AL managed to have a worse record than I) in exchange for one year of 4CPs.SO I offer it in good faith to the league to let me/us know if this is a reasonable offer/possible in our league.
Pro's for me: it temporarily relieves an overcrowded prospect pool allowing me to develop an extra player normally for one year, and one year only.
Pro's for trade partner: he gets an additional quality draft pick to beef up a depleted minor league system. The temporary loss of unused CP's (or CP's placed on marginal prospects) yields a stronger and deeper system in the future.
If this seems reasonable to everyone, I'll go ahead and post a special topic for CP trades that explains the trade with more detail.
bpearly69
[Edited on 1-17-2011 by bpearly69]
January 17, 2011 at 06:49PM View BBCode
It's fine with me but I'd like to have Tyson "stick" a topic for us that says something like cp trading that's used just for details of cp trading, and me personally I'd like there to be a limit of cps a team can use or a better word, gain for a season, for example, the most total cps a team can have is 25, so the most you can gain from another team would be 5 cps, just so we don't have team's dealing out and gaining 40 cps a year,[Edited on 1-17-2011 by bpearly69]
Slimlizard
January 17, 2011 at 06:58PM View BBCode
Agreed. We could even impose a limit on the CP's that can be traded. I also like the idea of trading for a maximum of 4 CP's to always ensure that a team always uses it's maximum on itself, and to guarantee that the best prospects are always homegrown. (plus with 4 traded, it still allows someone to train two prospects at 5, and TWO at 3).
bpearly69
January 17, 2011 at 07:21PM View BBCode
So your saying the limit would be something like 5 overall? But 4 maximum per player? so it could be something like, just say, 4-1, 3-2, 2-2-1 and so on?
bpearly69
January 17, 2011 at 07:23PM View BBCode
My big thing is having a limit set, the 25 seems alright with me, and then only being able to use 4 as the most per cp trade per player, that way you can't have one of your guys getting 5? just wanna be clear on that and understand it
Horseradish
Yep, once actually saw a package of 60 CP's attempt to be traded!!
Horseradish Milwaukee
January 17, 2011 at 08:18PM View BBCode
Originally posted by bpearly69
It's fine with me but I'd like to have Tyson "stick" a topic for us that says something like cp trading that's used just for details of cp trading, and me personally I'd like there to be a limit of cps a team can use or a better word, gain for a season, for example, the most total cps a team can have is 25, so the most you can gain from another team would be 5 cps, just so we don't have team's dealing out and gaining 40 cps a year,
[Edited on 1-17-2011 by bpearly69]
Yep, once actually saw a package of 60 CP's attempt to be traded!!
Horseradish Milwaukee
Horseradish
1. that we have reasonably strong league support for this league wide.....before we move forward.......I would hate to see one or two teams benefit from cp trading and then have the league reject the idea as a whole,......thereby giving those clubs an advantage over other rebuilding clubs...
2. as has been bantered about briefly a league accepted cap of some type.....limiting the amount of CP's that can be traded for in any one season to a max of some sort....but definitely no more than 10.....with a league approved owner responsible for tracking CP's trades and the return of players etc.... left to individual owners it has a tendancy to get sloppy and out of hand..... especially when those leaving a league tend to get involved in the process...
thanks, Horseradish Milwaukee
January 17, 2011 at 09:35PM View BBCode
As I mentioned early when slim inquired into CP trading........I really have no feelings one way or the other.....the two things that I would ask that we strongly consider if we are to go ahead would be the following.......1. that we have reasonably strong league support for this league wide.....before we move forward.......I would hate to see one or two teams benefit from cp trading and then have the league reject the idea as a whole,......thereby giving those clubs an advantage over other rebuilding clubs...
2. as has been bantered about briefly a league accepted cap of some type.....limiting the amount of CP's that can be traded for in any one season to a max of some sort....but definitely no more than 10.....with a league approved owner responsible for tracking CP's trades and the return of players etc.... left to individual owners it has a tendancy to get sloppy and out of hand..... especially when those leaving a league tend to get involved in the process...
thanks, Horseradish Milwaukee
ballmark
CPs are the Precioussssssssssssss.
But seriously, how does this work, code-wise? I mean, I don't see any mechanical way to deal anything other than players and draft picks. Is it a setting Tyson turns on? And then how does ABE track that stuff? To allow someone to use more than 20 CPs seems like the code would have to remove the 20-point limit for *every* team?
Do the CPs you deal in '82 revert to your team in '83, or are they gone forever?
Details, gentlemen, I need DETAILS.
Details are the Precioussssssssssssssssss.
January 17, 2011 at 09:36PM View BBCode
I need my CPs. Yes. Yes I do. You can't have any.CPs are the Precioussssssssssssss.
But seriously, how does this work, code-wise? I mean, I don't see any mechanical way to deal anything other than players and draft picks. Is it a setting Tyson turns on? And then how does ABE track that stuff? To allow someone to use more than 20 CPs seems like the code would have to remove the 20-point limit for *every* team?
Do the CPs you deal in '82 revert to your team in '83, or are they gone forever?
Details, gentlemen, I need DETAILS.
Details are the Precioussssssssssssssssss.
bpearly69
January 17, 2011 at 10:20PM View BBCode
It's an agreement, for example, if I go to trade desk, click on your name, then just hit the next button, then from my team page send you, for example, my first round pick, id then send you a prospect of my choosing and you would need to cp him, that way I can not only use 20 cps for my own team, but also the 4 we seem to be agreeing on here, or 5 spread out to multiple prospects, but im betting the 4 will be settled on per player because the idea of the other team still using 5 cps on their own players sounds good, then having the option to still use 3 on others and so on, that explain anything better?
ballmark
January 17, 2011 at 10:37PM View BBCode
Yes, I think I see ... but does that mean that I would have to either waive or send you back a non-prospect in return to keep the minor league roster at 15 and maximize ICs?
imalbundy2
there are people who know how to work that game and they will take advantage of those who don't.
January 18, 2011 at 01:45AM View BBCode
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL I VOTE TO TRADE CP'S IN THIS LEAGUE.there are people who know how to work that game and they will take advantage of those who don't.
bpearly69
January 18, 2011 at 06:33AM View BBCode
Which is why we set a limit, the most you can have is 4 on one player, for only one year, we really should build in a strict limit, maybe a max amount of cp trades your allowed to make every 10 sim seasons
ballmark
And only once per season.
The idea being to make it costly enough that the league is generally discouraged from doing it, but a motivated owner with a ton of prospects and/or picks still has that option.
January 18, 2011 at 08:39AM View BBCode
Or maybe the fact you can only trade draft picks --> and only from the first or second round. (First round for 4 CPs, second round for less than that.)And only once per season.
The idea being to make it costly enough that the league is generally discouraged from doing it, but a motivated owner with a ton of prospects and/or picks still has that option.
Damien435
January 18, 2011 at 05:33PM View BBCode
What are cp's really worth though? For people whose team is loaded with prospects, quite a bit, for a team with an empty roster in their minors not much. Bundy has nobody in the minors right now, he should be allowed to trade 15 cp's if he wants to, even if it is for an OS34 RP. I do not think we should put limits on these trades, we don't put limits on player trades and those are just as susceptible to being abused.
bpearly69
January 18, 2011 at 06:38PM View BBCode
with cps, it allows you to actually want to get that extra prospect, for a rebuilding team, it not only speeds it up, but makes it so they'd be holding 3 or 4 draft picks a year in the 1st or 2nd round, then not only spending 5 cps on 3 of their guys, but also having it spread out to other teams, I play in a league that allows cp trading and its gotten out of hand a few times to where there was a huge argument, horse also stated it
Slimlizard
And the four CP per trade maximum does encourage players to grow their own talent at home.
So perhaps we should come up with some ground rules.
1. 4 CP per year per trade Maximum
2. No more than 10 total traded CP's per Manager at any one time. (So no one get's more than thirty, and no one has fewer than 10).
3. The details of said CP trades must be listed in an approved formula in a particular thread.
4. Terms of CP trades should not extend longer than 2 years.
5. Should a manager leave in the middle of a CP trade, the player currently being trained must be returned to the team he belongs to. (I.e. CP trades ought not be binding on managers who didn't make the deal).
6. The player traded must receive the agreed upon amount of CP's for the remainder of the agreed upon season. He may not be promoted to the ML team even in the case of injury, or of the September roster expansion. He may not be traded, or waived.
Anything else?
January 18, 2011 at 07:33PM View BBCode
I agree with most of the discussion. I do think it's not fair to trade CP's long term. If you lock into a deal for more than a year or two, it almost always leads to a mismanaged team. Especially if there's a draft pick involved in the trade. What does that say about a team that doesn't have draft picks worth investing in over that length of time? That's why I like the idea of locking in a CP trade limit of a year per deal.And the four CP per trade maximum does encourage players to grow their own talent at home.
So perhaps we should come up with some ground rules.
1. 4 CP per year per trade Maximum
2. No more than 10 total traded CP's per Manager at any one time. (So no one get's more than thirty, and no one has fewer than 10).
3. The details of said CP trades must be listed in an approved formula in a particular thread.
4. Terms of CP trades should not extend longer than 2 years.
5. Should a manager leave in the middle of a CP trade, the player currently being trained must be returned to the team he belongs to. (I.e. CP trades ought not be binding on managers who didn't make the deal).
6. The player traded must receive the agreed upon amount of CP's for the remainder of the agreed upon season. He may not be promoted to the ML team even in the case of injury, or of the September roster expansion. He may not be traded, or waived.
Anything else?
ballmark
I pay Cincinnati (to pick a team at random) a draft pick or agreed-upon player, and also trade him the prospect I need trained. He agrees to put up to 4 CPs on said player - depending on the deal we've worked out - for the length of said agreement. The other commitment he makes is to drop (or deal to me) someone from his farm team to keep that part of his roster at 15.
Clear as mud?
And then we post it in a thread that we've asked Tyson to pin at the top of our league forum.
January 18, 2011 at 10:32PM View BBCode
So it's not really *trading* CPs - though there is a swap involved on some level - it's more like "renting" another team's Coach Points.I pay Cincinnati (to pick a team at random) a draft pick or agreed-upon player, and also trade him the prospect I need trained. He agrees to put up to 4 CPs on said player - depending on the deal we've worked out - for the length of said agreement. The other commitment he makes is to drop (or deal to me) someone from his farm team to keep that part of his roster at 15.
Clear as mud?
And then we post it in a thread that we've asked Tyson to pin at the top of our league forum.
bpearly69
January 19, 2011 at 12:14AM View BBCode
I'm fine with it all, not so sure about a team being able to have 30, im kinda more leaning to 25 limit, because you can then send 2 players putting 4 on each, i kind of liked just the one player or 5 total
ballmark
January 19, 2011 at 12:49AM View BBCode
I just can't imagine a team having CPs to spare. But then it seems like I've always been in rebuilding mode.
Slimlizard
January 19, 2011 at 04:31AM View BBCode
It happens mostly with two circumstances... either a team trades its prospects and draft picks away for ML ready players in order to compete just before a big rebuild; OR a team has a number of ML ready prospects, promotes them, then drafts another ML ready player to fill the CP void... suddenly you have a lot of young ML players, and no real CP type prospects.
Slimlizard
If this seems reasonable to everyone, I'd like to move forward at some point. Just keep us all posted.
January 19, 2011 at 05:50PM View BBCode
So pearly, how do we compromise on the 4 CP max per player I'm suggesting, and the 5cp overall limit that you're supporting. Should it be a cap of 5 with a max of 4 on any one player? or a cap of say 7, divided 4 and 3?If this seems reasonable to everyone, I'd like to move forward at some point. Just keep us all posted.