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celamantia
With that, here is my thought on how strategy will be presented:
- You've already seen the Base Offense page, with the three presets (I intend to have more presets available by launch). The presets should make it easy for the casual gamer to switch things up.
- Originally I was going to let gamers handler the two-minute drill on the Advanced Offense page but I think I'm going to set up a dedicated "Two Minute Warning" page that looks like the Base Offense page.
- Finally, there will be the Advanced Options page. This works similar to the Defense page in Sim Dynasty. (I am coding this now.) You can also think of it like using inbox rules in your E-mail. You set up a set of situations, and for each situation you have four possibilities like each row of the Base Offense page. Unlike the Base Offense page, the options here are more precise, so instead of "Med Pass" you would have both "Med Pass" and "Med Sideline Pass". Eventually, you'll be able to put specific plays here.
The rules look something like:
In quarter []1 []2 []3 []4 []OT, with [] to [] seconds left on the clock, on down []1 []2 []3 []4 with [] to [] yards to go, between [] and [] yards to the goal line, when [behind/ahead/tied/NA] by [], and []0 []1 []2 []3 timeouts remaining for you and []0 []1 []2 []3 timeouts remaining for the opponent, do the following: [%][option] . [%][option] . [%][option] . [%][option]
Now, the Advancved Option page would literally allow you to call precisely everything that happens on the field, if you add enough rules, making it potentially a bear to manage but owners that master it have a potentially large advantage. So I guess my questions are:
- Is having a Base Offense, Base Defense, Two Minute Offense, and Two Minute Defense with a few presets for each page going to be simple enough for the casual gamer? Or should there be an even more basic option that just has a Run More/Pass More setting for Offense and Pass Defense/Run Offense for the defense?
- Should trial leagues be limited to no more than 5-10 advanced rules? Should they not even have advanced rules?
- I'm thinking pay leagues should have the option of limiting or denying advanced rules in case someone wants to set up a more casual league.
Any thoughts?
--Chris
Thoughts on strategy:
December 17, 2010 at 05:17PM View BBCode
One of the major goals of Sim Dynasty Football is that it be both simple to play for the casual gamer and deep enough for the advanced gamer. In addition, I need to satisfy the conflicting goals that a casual gamer should have a chance against an advanced gamer with dedicated time, yet the owner who puts more time into the game should be rewarded for that time.With that, here is my thought on how strategy will be presented:
- You've already seen the Base Offense page, with the three presets (I intend to have more presets available by launch). The presets should make it easy for the casual gamer to switch things up.
- Originally I was going to let gamers handler the two-minute drill on the Advanced Offense page but I think I'm going to set up a dedicated "Two Minute Warning" page that looks like the Base Offense page.
- Finally, there will be the Advanced Options page. This works similar to the Defense page in Sim Dynasty. (I am coding this now.) You can also think of it like using inbox rules in your E-mail. You set up a set of situations, and for each situation you have four possibilities like each row of the Base Offense page. Unlike the Base Offense page, the options here are more precise, so instead of "Med Pass" you would have both "Med Pass" and "Med Sideline Pass". Eventually, you'll be able to put specific plays here.
The rules look something like:
In quarter []1 []2 []3 []4 []OT, with [] to [] seconds left on the clock, on down []1 []2 []3 []4 with [] to [] yards to go, between [] and [] yards to the goal line, when [behind/ahead/tied/NA] by [], and []0 []1 []2 []3 timeouts remaining for you and []0 []1 []2 []3 timeouts remaining for the opponent, do the following: [%][option] . [%][option] . [%][option] . [%][option]
Now, the Advancved Option page would literally allow you to call precisely everything that happens on the field, if you add enough rules, making it potentially a bear to manage but owners that master it have a potentially large advantage. So I guess my questions are:
- Is having a Base Offense, Base Defense, Two Minute Offense, and Two Minute Defense with a few presets for each page going to be simple enough for the casual gamer? Or should there be an even more basic option that just has a Run More/Pass More setting for Offense and Pass Defense/Run Offense for the defense?
- Should trial leagues be limited to no more than 5-10 advanced rules? Should they not even have advanced rules?
- I'm thinking pay leagues should have the option of limiting or denying advanced rules in case someone wants to set up a more casual league.
Any thoughts?
--Chris
celamantia
December 17, 2010 at 05:38PM View BBCode
BTW, non-testers who may be watching this thread are welcome to chime in on this issue, too.)
jetpac
I'm always in favor of giving more options to private leagues.
Timeouts should have an option to be a range (1-3 timeouts remaining), or a "Don't care" option.
That's all I can think of right now.
December 17, 2010 at 07:37PM View BBCode
trial leagues should definitely have some of the options, but limiting it might be a good idea. That seems to be in the spirit of trial leagues, give them a taste but not the full product. I suppose having a simpler option couldn't hurt, but people who chose it would be intentionally handicapping themselves. Some people just might not want to be bothered, but I don't know... I guess if they're just presets that can be edited, as opposed to the "simple preferences" that baseball has, it should be ok.I'm always in favor of giving more options to private leagues.
[behind/ahead/tied/NA] by [], and []0 []1 []2 []3 timeouts remaining for you and []0 []1 []2 []3 timeouts remaining for the opponent
Timeouts should have an option to be a range (1-3 timeouts remaining), or a "Don't care" option.
That's all I can think of right now.
celamantia
Those are checkboxes, so if you don't care just check 'em all (which is the default).
December 17, 2010 at 07:40PM View BBCode
Originally posted by jetpac
trial leagues should definitely have some of the options, but limiting it might be a good idea. That seems to be in the spirit of trial leagues, give them a taste but not the full product. I suppose having a simpler option couldn't hurt, but people who chose it would be intentionally handicapping themselves. Some people just might not want to be bothered, but I don't know... I guess if they're just presets that can be edited, as opposed to the "simple preferences" that baseball has, it should be ok.
I'm always in favor of giving more options to private leagues.
[behind/ahead/tied/NA] by [], and []0 []1 []2 []3 timeouts remaining for you and []0 []1 []2 []3 timeouts remaining for the opponent
Timeouts should have an option to be a range (1-3 timeouts remaining), or a "Don't care" option.
That's all I can think of right now.
Those are checkboxes, so if you don't care just check 'em all (which is the default).
zoom
I really like the idea of putting in rules for game management. I personally feel a 5 minute drill is just as important as a 2 minute drill. Perhaps there should be something in the code about automatically going into a 2 minute drill if losing my multiple scores with 4 or 5 minutes left, reducing the complexity of setting up the rules. Of course, there might have to be a time out exception, as most teams down by two touchdowns will save their timeouts until within 3 minutes, but will still be running a two minute drill prior to that.
December 18, 2010 at 04:35AM View BBCode
I think trial leagues should have most/all of the same options that the pay leagues have, allowing for the owners there to get some practice with them before they jump into the pay leagues. If it is anything like simdynasty baseball, we will always have new owners jumping in to pay leagues with only trial league experience. It looks like good owners will be able to exploit these options to beat up on inexperienced owners, who will already have their hands full with personnel decisions and setting lineups. I think limiting the trial leagues to no playoffs or a much shorter season (like 4 - 6 games) would be better than altering game management itself.I really like the idea of putting in rules for game management. I personally feel a 5 minute drill is just as important as a 2 minute drill. Perhaps there should be something in the code about automatically going into a 2 minute drill if losing my multiple scores with 4 or 5 minutes left, reducing the complexity of setting up the rules. Of course, there might have to be a time out exception, as most teams down by two touchdowns will save their timeouts until within 3 minutes, but will still be running a two minute drill prior to that.
celamantia
The thing is, your saved strategies are available to ALL of your teams, both trial and pay, so loading a full strategy set into a limited league would cause issues. So I'll just keep all leagues the same.
December 18, 2010 at 07:37PM View BBCode
The reason I was thinking of limiting trial leagues is not to "cut down" the product so much as to keep people on a more level playing field.The thing is, your saved strategies are available to ALL of your teams, both trial and pay, so loading a full strategy set into a limited league would cause issues. So I'll just keep all leagues the same.
celamantia
Right now the only difference betwen the trial and pay leagues is that trial leagues run only a single season, and they can't be customized like pay leagues (although I may allow a limited amount of customization, like making trial leagues available in both 8 and 16 team versions.)
December 18, 2010 at 07:39PM View BBCode
Originally posted by zoom
I think limiting the trial leagues to no playoffs or a much shorter season (like 4 - 6 games) would be better than altering game management itself.
Right now the only difference betwen the trial and pay leagues is that trial leagues run only a single season, and they can't be customized like pay leagues (although I may allow a limited amount of customization, like making trial leagues available in both 8 and 16 team versions.)
tworoosters
I think that having the trial leagues play two 1/2 seasons would be better than one full season, it would let new owners get a feel for off season much like the baseball trial leagues now do.
I know when I first started the trial leagues were limiting because you didn't get to see what O/S improves and declines did to a team .
December 18, 2010 at 08:28PM View BBCode
ChrisI think that having the trial leagues play two 1/2 seasons would be better than one full season, it would let new owners get a feel for off season much like the baseball trial leagues now do.
I know when I first started the trial leagues were limiting because you didn't get to see what O/S improves and declines did to a team .
celamantia
The problem is doing two seasons requires generating a massive amount of data to populate the college system to do a draft, the majority of which will go unused.
December 18, 2010 at 08:37PM View BBCode
There are no OS improves or declines here; they happen in-season. (Actually, I think there are some declines but all improves are in-season.)The problem is doing two seasons requires generating a massive amount of data to populate the college system to do a draft, the majority of which will go unused.
celamantia
- When you first sign up, your Strategy page is a single page with drop-downs to set your strategies to a handful of presets, and an option to switch to Advanced mode.
- In Advanced mode, you will have tabs for Offense, Defense, Kicking and Returns.
- The Offense and Defense tabs will have a second set of tabs. The tabs are:
- Base
- 2-Minute
- Red Zone
- Red Zone 2-Minute
- Goal Line
- Yellow Zone
- Advanced
All tabs except Advanced look identical to the current Base Offense page, except they have the addition of a parameter specific to that page (either the time or yard line when that tab takes effect).
- 2-Minute drills are run by both teams at the end of the half or when the offense is tied or behind at the end of the game. They can be adjusted to take effect from 60 seconds to 6 minutes before the end of the half/game, with the default at 120.
- Red Zone can be adjusted to take effect between 10 and 30 yards of your opponent's goal line, with the default at 20.
- Red Zone 2-Minute is fixed at 20 yards but the time is adjustable.
- Yellow Zone is in effect 10 to 30 yards from your own goal line with the default at 15.
- Goal Line is in effect 2 to 7 yards from your opponent's goal line, with the default at 5. (Since this can be set out as far as 7 yards, the goal line page still has options for Short, Med and Long, although most people will rarely use Long.)
The Advanced tab overrides all these tabs, and the Kicking tab overrides everything. So tabs are evaluated in this priority:
1- Kicking
2- Advanced
3- Goal Line
4- Red Zone 2-Minute
5- Red Zone
6- Yellow Zone
7- 2-Minute
8- Base
(I guess one question is should 2-Minute have higher priority than Yellow Zone?)
Each section is saved on its own, and the strategies saved are only visible in that section so you don't have long cluttered strategy lists.
Thoughts and comments are welcome.
--Chris
December 21, 2010 at 06:57PM View BBCode
OK, I'm a good chunk through interface coding. Here's how this will work:- When you first sign up, your Strategy page is a single page with drop-downs to set your strategies to a handful of presets, and an option to switch to Advanced mode.
- In Advanced mode, you will have tabs for Offense, Defense, Kicking and Returns.
- The Offense and Defense tabs will have a second set of tabs. The tabs are:
- Base
- 2-Minute
- Red Zone
- Red Zone 2-Minute
- Goal Line
- Yellow Zone
- Advanced
All tabs except Advanced look identical to the current Base Offense page, except they have the addition of a parameter specific to that page (either the time or yard line when that tab takes effect).
- 2-Minute drills are run by both teams at the end of the half or when the offense is tied or behind at the end of the game. They can be adjusted to take effect from 60 seconds to 6 minutes before the end of the half/game, with the default at 120.
- Red Zone can be adjusted to take effect between 10 and 30 yards of your opponent's goal line, with the default at 20.
- Red Zone 2-Minute is fixed at 20 yards but the time is adjustable.
- Yellow Zone is in effect 10 to 30 yards from your own goal line with the default at 15.
- Goal Line is in effect 2 to 7 yards from your opponent's goal line, with the default at 5. (Since this can be set out as far as 7 yards, the goal line page still has options for Short, Med and Long, although most people will rarely use Long.)
The Advanced tab overrides all these tabs, and the Kicking tab overrides everything. So tabs are evaluated in this priority:
1- Kicking
2- Advanced
3- Goal Line
4- Red Zone 2-Minute
5- Red Zone
6- Yellow Zone
7- 2-Minute
8- Base
(I guess one question is should 2-Minute have higher priority than Yellow Zone?)
Each section is saved on its own, and the strategies saved are only visible in that section so you don't have long cluttered strategy lists.
Thoughts and comments are welcome.
--Chris
Hamilton2
1- Kicking
2- Advanced
3- Red Zone 2-minute
4- Goal Line
5- Red Zone
6- 2-Minute
7- Yellow Zone
8- Base
Basically, I switched 3/4 and 6/7 on the lists.
December 21, 2010 at 11:18PM View BBCode
Chris, this new section sounds fantastic. I would suggest the following for priority:1- Kicking
2- Advanced
3- Red Zone 2-minute
4- Goal Line
5- Red Zone
6- 2-Minute
7- Yellow Zone
8- Base
Basically, I switched 3/4 and 6/7 on the lists.
celamantia
Note that the offense will go into hurry-up mode (if behind or tied) when less than 2 minutes remains as far as huddle times whether or not using the 2-minute drill strategies; the strategy section only affects play selection. Timeouts and clock handling would be handled correctly regardless of the priority.
I keep changing my mind on 6 and 7... I guess the proper answer there is to make it a preference setting.
December 22, 2010 at 05:43AM View BBCode
3 and 4 could be problematic; you'd be riunning plays not really appropriate for goal line situations. Would it be better to add a goal line 2-minute?Note that the offense will go into hurry-up mode (if behind or tied) when less than 2 minutes remains as far as huddle times whether or not using the 2-minute drill strategies; the strategy section only affects play selection. Timeouts and clock handling would be handled correctly regardless of the priority.
I keep changing my mind on 6 and 7... I guess the proper answer there is to make it a preference setting.
Hamilton2
December 22, 2010 at 01:53PM View BBCode
Ah, I didn't realize that the "hurry-up" mode was automatically on. You should leave 3/4 the way that you have them, I think. Although, many owners may emphasize the run in a goal line preference but would prefer to pass more if it is under 2 minutes. I would hate to have the ball at the 3 yard line with 23 seconds left and run it up the middle for 2 yards and have time expire.
celamantia
With all these tabs most peole will never need to touch the advanced settings.
--Chris
December 22, 2010 at 08:30PM View BBCode
Sounds like I really need a "Goal Line 2-Min" then. That will solve everything. Of course, you could solve it using advanced settings too, but you make a good point.With all these tabs most peole will never need to touch the advanced settings.
--Chris
celamantia
December 22, 2010 at 10:49PM View BBCode
It's in now. I'm going to see if I can get it uploaded tonight, at least for the offense.
bpearly69
December 23, 2010 at 10:34PM View BBCode
shouldn't plays only be called in those situations listed as above? kinda confused on the advanced? wouldnt you need to use the advanced settings to use all these settings?
Hamilton2
December 23, 2010 at 10:44PM View BBCode
Advanced allows very specific rules for play-by-play calling capability. Like the situational fielding rules in the baseball sim.
celamantia
I have not yet created any reasonable default rules for any page other than the base Offense and Defense pages, If anyone is willing to set up some rules for those pages and donate them to the game, please let me know. :) Otherwise, after I get the code integrated I'll go back and fill in those pages so they behave similarly to the way the default AI has been behaving.
--Chris
December 27, 2010 at 05:22PM View BBCode
I've uploaded the pages for offense and defense except for the Advanced page, which I am still working on the interface on. I've been testing the code in isolation before I integrate it into the actual game. I am going to make the test page available in the game so owners can see exactly which rule will be applied for a given situation.I have not yet created any reasonable default rules for any page other than the base Offense and Defense pages, If anyone is willing to set up some rules for those pages and donate them to the game, please let me know. :) Otherwise, after I get the code integrated I'll go back and fill in those pages so they behave similarly to the way the default AI has been behaving.
--Chris
bpearly69
December 27, 2010 at 11:43PM View BBCode
Is Base just anything not in those specific spots?
celamantia
Yes. Some might call it "Green Zone". At the top of the Base page, it describes itself as "This strategy is in effect when no other strategy applies."
December 28, 2010 at 01:02AM View BBCode
Originally posted by bpearly69
Is Base just anything not in those specific spots?
Yes. Some might call it "Green Zone". At the top of the Base page, it describes itself as "This strategy is in effect when no other strategy applies."
celamantia
I've added the code for screens so that strategy will work now.
December 28, 2010 at 05:06AM View BBCode
OK, the offensive strategies are integrated into the game code, but I need to build up some reasonable defaults for all pages before I turn games back on. I haven't integrated the defensive strategies yet so the settings on those pages won't have any effect yet.I've added the code for screens so that strategy will work now.
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