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celamantia
I've spent the last couple of days working on the amateur draft... well, in this case, the college draft. You would think that a lot of these things should be easy; after all, a draft is a draft, and a lot of the code can be swiped from Sim Dynasty Baseball.
Well, that is sometimes true; I've had pages like the user profile and My Teams convert over with little difficulty. But the databases are very different underneath... in some places I think I've managed to improve things a bit, and in others I've outsmarted myself and realize only too late why Tyson does some things the way he does (this is why you have not seen personal statistics yet.)
So in the case of the draft, what we are looking at here is a size issue. Some of you may remember the challenge irt was for me to adapt the Roster drag and drop code, designed for 15 players, to the Draft where 100 players were in the table at once.
My current test database has 900 players in the college draft! Why so many? There are 64 schools, each of which gains about 15 players a year when freshmen are created (right after the completion of Game 1 of the season, when "school starts"). That's 960 players per class, and that doesn't even count the 40-50 juniors who will eventually declare for the draft (3-4 a week for 15 weeks (they won't declare in the first or last week, or during the postseason). So the problem is in that ALL seniors declare for the draft, even those who really have no chance of making it.
Now, talent is a bit of a different issue in football than it is in baseball. There are no minor leagues, and players are coming out of the draft already 21-23 years old. So these guys are ready, or nearly so, to play. My current draft has two A- overall players, about 50 B+ overall players, and a couple hundred B overall players. That's more than enough to fill the 224 slots in a 32 team league (and this is actually a 16-team league, in a 32 team league there will be more talent).
So I'm thinking that if these seniors don't reach B- overall, they shouldn't declare for the draft and be quietly purged from the database if they don't get picked up as free agents. That should get the draft down to a usable size. However, there may yet be some gems in there; position 959 in the draft is a QB rated C overall who by all looks won't get anywhere... but he is rated A in Potential and B+ in Attitude, which combined with some lucky dice could boost him up if anyone took a chance on him...
[Edited on 6-14-2010 by celamantia]
Updates
June 14, 2010 at 07:57AM View BBCode
There was a comment once a while back that I should post a development blog... wellm, if not a blog, at least I should post updates of where I am at....I've spent the last couple of days working on the amateur draft... well, in this case, the college draft. You would think that a lot of these things should be easy; after all, a draft is a draft, and a lot of the code can be swiped from Sim Dynasty Baseball.
Well, that is sometimes true; I've had pages like the user profile and My Teams convert over with little difficulty. But the databases are very different underneath... in some places I think I've managed to improve things a bit, and in others I've outsmarted myself and realize only too late why Tyson does some things the way he does (this is why you have not seen personal statistics yet.)
So in the case of the draft, what we are looking at here is a size issue. Some of you may remember the challenge irt was for me to adapt the Roster drag and drop code, designed for 15 players, to the Draft where 100 players were in the table at once.
My current test database has 900 players in the college draft! Why so many? There are 64 schools, each of which gains about 15 players a year when freshmen are created (right after the completion of Game 1 of the season, when "school starts"). That's 960 players per class, and that doesn't even count the 40-50 juniors who will eventually declare for the draft (3-4 a week for 15 weeks (they won't declare in the first or last week, or during the postseason). So the problem is in that ALL seniors declare for the draft, even those who really have no chance of making it.
Now, talent is a bit of a different issue in football than it is in baseball. There are no minor leagues, and players are coming out of the draft already 21-23 years old. So these guys are ready, or nearly so, to play. My current draft has two A- overall players, about 50 B+ overall players, and a couple hundred B overall players. That's more than enough to fill the 224 slots in a 32 team league (and this is actually a 16-team league, in a 32 team league there will be more talent).
So I'm thinking that if these seniors don't reach B- overall, they shouldn't declare for the draft and be quietly purged from the database if they don't get picked up as free agents. That should get the draft down to a usable size. However, there may yet be some gems in there; position 959 in the draft is a QB rated C overall who by all looks won't get anywhere... but he is rated A in Potential and B+ in Attitude, which combined with some lucky dice could boost him up if anyone took a chance on him...
[Edited on 6-14-2010 by celamantia]
happy
Dont have college. Have 21-23 year olds get created just like in Sim (but without the young guys). Having colleges is cool in theory, but in reality, it just lets people know what year they need to tank well ahead of time.
Also, in Sim, every round past the 2nd round is pretty useless. Like, I think SimD would be improved by completely getting rid of rounds 3-5, and instantly murdering anyone who isnt drafted or picked up in their first year (instead of having some huge waiver wire, just keep the guys who actually get drafted and waived)
I think in football, keep it some decent number of rounds in the beginning, but once things get settled down, just get rid of whatever rounds are useless.
Also, IMO players should improve at similar speeds whether or not they play, otherwise backups will be really really bad. The fact that they start worse should be enough. Maybe have them improve the same in certain categories but just improve slower in a few categories (i dont know, awareness or what have you). I mean, there should be some incentive to get people to get their young guys in there instead of having them sit on the sidelines, but at the same time, some people think rookies do better sitting on the sidelines, and also Aaron Rodgers turned out just fine despite all his time on the sidelines.
June 14, 2010 at 01:44PM View BBCode
Imo, Youve overdone yourself.Dont have college. Have 21-23 year olds get created just like in Sim (but without the young guys). Having colleges is cool in theory, but in reality, it just lets people know what year they need to tank well ahead of time.
Also, in Sim, every round past the 2nd round is pretty useless. Like, I think SimD would be improved by completely getting rid of rounds 3-5, and instantly murdering anyone who isnt drafted or picked up in their first year (instead of having some huge waiver wire, just keep the guys who actually get drafted and waived)
I think in football, keep it some decent number of rounds in the beginning, but once things get settled down, just get rid of whatever rounds are useless.
Also, IMO players should improve at similar speeds whether or not they play, otherwise backups will be really really bad. The fact that they start worse should be enough. Maybe have them improve the same in certain categories but just improve slower in a few categories (i dont know, awareness or what have you). I mean, there should be some incentive to get people to get their young guys in there instead of having them sit on the sidelines, but at the same time, some people think rookies do better sitting on the sidelines, and also Aaron Rodgers turned out just fine despite all his time on the sidelines.
bpearly69
June 14, 2010 at 02:12PM View BBCode
I really like the idea of college, and i believe you were saying at some point some kind of like development league, but as you said it'd be way down the road, like a league where guys who aren't good enough go to play and develop
celamantia
I'm hoping not, you don't have quitethe talent drop-off that you do in baseball. In fact, right now I am fighting the opposite problem, whgere the talent is too consistent. I'm going to (hopefully) open the site to thje testers this weekend and you can look around for yourself.
I'm starting with a full 7-round draft, but as you say we can always tinker from there. The free agent ppool is not going to get huge, I'm not going to wait for full retirement age to start bumping the also-rans. I'll give them a couple years at most.
I agree... there will be a small bonus for starters or those who appear in games but not the huge difference we have in baseball.
Potential and Attitude ar the two key factors... a second-rate player with high Attitude and Potential can grow into a starter.
June 16, 2010 at 04:57AM View BBCode
Originally posted by happy
Dont have college. Have 21-23 year olds get created just like in Sim (but without the young guys). Having colleges is cool in theory, but in reality, it just lets people know what year they need to tank well ahead of time.
I'm hoping not, you don't have quitethe talent drop-off that you do in baseball. In fact, right now I am fighting the opposite problem, whgere the talent is too consistent. I'm going to (hopefully) open the site to thje testers this weekend and you can look around for yourself.
Also, in Sim, every round past the 2nd round is pretty useless. Like, I think SimD would be improved by completely getting rid of rounds 3-5, and instantly murdering anyone who isnt drafted or picked up in their first year (instead of having some huge waiver wire, just keep the guys who actually get drafted and waived)
I think in football, keep it some decent number of rounds in the beginning, but once things get settled down, just get rid of whatever rounds are useless.
I'm starting with a full 7-round draft, but as you say we can always tinker from there. The free agent ppool is not going to get huge, I'm not going to wait for full retirement age to start bumping the also-rans. I'll give them a couple years at most.
Also, IMO players should improve at similar speeds whether or not they play, otherwise backups will be really really bad.
I agree... there will be a small bonus for starters or those who appear in games but not the huge difference we have in baseball.
The fact that they start worse should be enough. Maybe have them improve the same in certain categories but just improve slower in a few categories (i dont know, awareness or what have you).
Potential and Attitude ar the two key factors... a second-rate player with high Attitude and Potential can grow into a starter.
Hamilton2
June 16, 2010 at 06:11AM View BBCode
Will the default setting for attitude and potential be "blind"? I really like the idea of playing this with blind potential. (I guess that is what the scouting and things are for ...)
thatrogue
However, I also think that potential should be influenced or offset by coaching, and that a greater degree of variable development should be used, so that there isn't the fairly projectable linear progression we have in baseball.
June 16, 2010 at 10:35AM View BBCode
I would think that potential and attitude should be viewable, as often times, this can be observed in college players.However, I also think that potential should be influenced or offset by coaching, and that a greater degree of variable development should be used, so that there isn't the fairly projectable linear progression we have in baseball.
celamantia
They are. You may not see them completely at first due to scouting, although I am reconsidering implementing scouting.
Potential doesn't change but attitide can improve. Improvement is not linear; each player has different improve and decline ages and improvements may be more or less than a full point (so in letter leagues you won't be able to count improvements to know your exact score).
June 16, 2010 at 08:10PM View BBCode
Originally posted by thatrogue
I would think that potential and attitude should be viewable, as often times, this can be observed in college players.
They are. You may not see them completely at first due to scouting, although I am reconsidering implementing scouting.
However, I also think that potential should be influenced or offset by coaching, and that a greater degree of variable development should be used, so that there isn't the fairly projectable linear progression we have in baseball.
Potential doesn't change but attitide can improve. Improvement is not linear; each player has different improve and decline ages and improvements may be more or less than a full point (so in letter leagues you won't be able to count improvements to know your exact score).
celamantia
Attitude is visible... I think in most players it is very visible in reality! Right now Potential isn't on trhe player card but it is visible in other areas.
I do not have Scouting implemented, and I am re-thinking whether I should because I am afraid that having hidden information revealed through scouting will kill all discussion of up-and-coming players.
June 16, 2010 at 08:13PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Hamilton2
Will the default setting for attitude and potential be "blind"? I really like the idea of playing this with blind potential. (I guess that is what the scouting and things are for ...)
Attitude is visible... I think in most players it is very visible in reality! Right now Potential isn't on trhe player card but it is visible in other areas.
I do not have Scouting implemented, and I am re-thinking whether I should because I am afraid that having hidden information revealed through scouting will kill all discussion of up-and-coming players.
celamantia
June 20, 2010 at 01:42AM View BBCode
Potential is now on the player card properly; I've also added a "best role" column to roster and draft displays to make it easier to spot special-teams candidates like holders, long snappers, kick returners, gunners, or kick return blocking backs that don't have a specific position. It will also specify SS or FS for safeties, FB or HB for running backs, LT or RT for tackles, and ILB or OLB for linebackers. That doesn't mean you can't use the player at the "other" role or that you'll have any penalty for doing so, just that the raw numbers make it seem that the player may be more successful at one role or the other
happy
I am very intrigued by having a choice between "high ceiling low floor" and "high floor low ceiling" type players.
Im pretty sure ive mentioned this before, but on baseballprospectus.com and other such websites, they often have a percentage chance that a player "booms" "improves" "declines" or "busts" (and it doesnt add up to 100, cuz there is some chance that they stay the same).
I always thought that it would be cool if thats how improvements on here worked. you roll the die per se once to see which one happens, if its boom or improve, improves go as normal (but with greater conversions under "boom"), if it falls on decline or bust, then you basically do the same thing, but subtract points instead of adding them instead.
It would make for a MUCH MUCH more dynamic game, where even your in his prime star QB could "bust" and decline down to the 4th or 5th best QB in the league (Like Carson Palmer type thing, although he went from 3rd or 4th down to mid level).
I think itd be nice because players would have holes to fill based on what happens in the offseason. in SimD you can look at your team and say "ok, in 4 years I need a shortstop because this one will decline, im set at all the other positions for a while." or what have you.
(this is similar to how i suggested the baseball variable improvements be done, but not the same.)
[Edited on 6-22-2010 by happy]
June 22, 2010 at 08:03PM View BBCode
The potential/attitude stuff is great Cel.I am very intrigued by having a choice between "high ceiling low floor" and "high floor low ceiling" type players.
Im pretty sure ive mentioned this before, but on baseballprospectus.com and other such websites, they often have a percentage chance that a player "booms" "improves" "declines" or "busts" (and it doesnt add up to 100, cuz there is some chance that they stay the same).
I always thought that it would be cool if thats how improvements on here worked. you roll the die per se once to see which one happens, if its boom or improve, improves go as normal (but with greater conversions under "boom"), if it falls on decline or bust, then you basically do the same thing, but subtract points instead of adding them instead.
It would make for a MUCH MUCH more dynamic game, where even your in his prime star QB could "bust" and decline down to the 4th or 5th best QB in the league (Like Carson Palmer type thing, although he went from 3rd or 4th down to mid level).
I think itd be nice because players would have holes to fill based on what happens in the offseason. in SimD you can look at your team and say "ok, in 4 years I need a shortstop because this one will decline, im set at all the other positions for a while." or what have you.
(this is similar to how i suggested the baseball variable improvements be done, but not the same.)
[Edited on 6-22-2010 by happy]
Jon
June 25, 2010 at 10:23AM View BBCode
Any chance we get a new round of simmed games for people like me to critique?
celamantia
I just finished the main roster page. All roster management is controlled from this one page: moving back and forth from the active to inactive roster, moving to the IR (you only come back from the IR in the offseason), moving to or from the trade block, and setting up a player's training plan. A training plan has two parts, a position and a drill set. Most players will train for their position, of coures, but special teamers or positions with specialized sub-roles will have choices to make. (This doesn't increase "skill in a position", it selects what attributes are likely to improve and in what percentages.) The Drills selection helps you target some of the non-position-specific skills, and in my usual "double-edged sword" fashion they may increase one of three skills but may (in most cases) reduce a fourth. (The logic behind this is that a player concentraining on weight training and packing on size and strength is going to lose in the speed department, and vice versa.)
The Drills settings are:
Conditioning: May increase Health and Stamina, and keeps weekly Conditioning score near maximum
Discipline: May increase Attitude, Execution and Hands; may decrease Aggressiveness
Weight Training: May increase Strength, Stamina and Tackle; may decrease Speed
Footwork: May increase Agility, Jump and Break Tackle; may reduce Strength.
Kicking: May increase Kick Accuracy, Kick Strength, and Execution; may reduce Endurance. (Added because kickers have little reason to train anything else)
Sprints: May increase Speed, Agility and Pursuit; may decrease Strength
All-Around: The default if you choose nothing else, may increase Speed, Health, Agility, Execution, Stamina, Jump, Hands, Tackle, or Strength, with nothing decreasing; has a lower conversion rate than the other drills. (I need a better name for this, with a first letter that doesn't conflict with the other settings.)
[Edited on 6-29-2010 by celamantia]
June 29, 2010 at 05:47AM View BBCode
I'm working right now on trying to finish the parts of the website that are missing and/or broken. I'd expected to have people logged into the game by now.I just finished the main roster page. All roster management is controlled from this one page: moving back and forth from the active to inactive roster, moving to the IR (you only come back from the IR in the offseason), moving to or from the trade block, and setting up a player's training plan. A training plan has two parts, a position and a drill set. Most players will train for their position, of coures, but special teamers or positions with specialized sub-roles will have choices to make. (This doesn't increase "skill in a position", it selects what attributes are likely to improve and in what percentages.) The Drills selection helps you target some of the non-position-specific skills, and in my usual "double-edged sword" fashion they may increase one of three skills but may (in most cases) reduce a fourth. (The logic behind this is that a player concentraining on weight training and packing on size and strength is going to lose in the speed department, and vice versa.)
The Drills settings are:
Conditioning: May increase Health and Stamina, and keeps weekly Conditioning score near maximum
Discipline: May increase Attitude, Execution and Hands; may decrease Aggressiveness
Weight Training: May increase Strength, Stamina and Tackle; may decrease Speed
Footwork: May increase Agility, Jump and Break Tackle; may reduce Strength.
Kicking: May increase Kick Accuracy, Kick Strength, and Execution; may reduce Endurance. (Added because kickers have little reason to train anything else)
Sprints: May increase Speed, Agility and Pursuit; may decrease Strength
All-Around: The default if you choose nothing else, may increase Speed, Health, Agility, Execution, Stamina, Jump, Hands, Tackle, or Strength, with nothing decreasing; has a lower conversion rate than the other drills. (I need a better name for this, with a first letter that doesn't conflict with the other settings.)
[Edited on 6-29-2010 by celamantia]
celamantia
June 29, 2010 at 06:42AM View BBCode
Here's a sample of the Coach Preferences. The initial Coach Preferences settings will be fairly basic to start; I expect to make them more detailed. I feel like Coach Preferences is the area where most sims just don't give enough control to the owner.celamantia has attached this image:
CCondardo
~Corey
July 06, 2010 at 01:30PM View BBCode
All of this looks exciting Chris, great job. I'm all signed up and ready to play :).~Corey
bpearly69
July 06, 2010 at 03:08PM View BBCode
signed up as well, the direction, meaning the accuracy of the punt basically right? like, trying to pin the team deep in their zone?
celamantia
You can't see it there, the three choices for that are "left", "right", and "random", and the number is the percentage of the way between dead center and the sideline. Of course, there will be variation based on the punter's accuracy, and when punting closer to the end zone punts will often be angled automatically to avoid touchbacks, although I need to put in an option to change these to squib kicks if preferred.
July 06, 2010 at 09:15PM View BBCode
Originally posted by bpearly69
signed up as well, the direction, meaning the accuracy of the punt basically right? like, trying to pin the team deep in their zone?
You can't see it there, the three choices for that are "left", "right", and "random", and the number is the percentage of the way between dead center and the sideline. Of course, there will be variation based on the punter's accuracy, and when punting closer to the end zone punts will often be angled automatically to avoid touchbacks, although I need to put in an option to change these to squib kicks if preferred.
celamantia
July 07, 2010 at 04:31AM View BBCode
We are waiting on two people who haven't signed up yet. Once the league fills, it should automatically organize into conferences and divisions and create the schedule, and it should populate the initial draft list.
bpearly69
July 07, 2010 at 01:38PM View BBCode
is there a way to change the logo color? like I'm NE but want the NE a diff color
bpearly69
July 07, 2010 at 02:02PM View BBCode
all i see is change helmet color and change helmet logo, nothin with logo color
celamantia
July 07, 2010 at 02:09PM View BBCode
Sorry, misunderstood what you were saying. No, the colors of the logo images can't be changed.
CCondardo
~Corey
July 07, 2010 at 03:59PM View BBCode
Chris can you reset my team? I made the Boston Patriots and Pearly (smart one Brian :) ) made the New England Patriots. I want to switch to a different city. I noticed the query for switching cities is not built in yet.~Corey