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barterer2002
April 23, 2009 at 12:21AM View BBCode
awesome? that's your comment on the murder of children?
happy
(Seriously, do we celebrate anniversaries of these things and post them in baseball forums?)
April 23, 2009 at 02:26AM View BBCode
awesome, its been a long time?(Seriously, do we celebrate anniversaries of these things and post them in baseball forums?)
FuriousGiorge
I'm just not sure how much more there is to say about Columbine. It's sort of been dissected to death. There just aren't a lot of new insights, and a lot of the conventional wisdom that led to all those easy lessons people took from the thing in its aftermath turned out to be wrong.
April 23, 2009 at 03:31AM View BBCode
He could have said "discuss", but we don't do that anymore.I'm just not sure how much more there is to say about Columbine. It's sort of been dissected to death. There just aren't a lot of new insights, and a lot of the conventional wisdom that led to all those easy lessons people took from the thing in its aftermath turned out to be wrong.
farfetched
Kids are too ashamed to seek counseling, go for what they believe to be a justified vigilante approach. For the rest of us, galactically stupid.
Several innocents died at their hands, took themselves out of the picture before they could be brought to justice.
The end.
April 23, 2009 at 03:35AM View BBCode
Kids grow up in a school environment they can't deal with.Kids are too ashamed to seek counseling, go for what they believe to be a justified vigilante approach. For the rest of us, galactically stupid.
Several innocents died at their hands, took themselves out of the picture before they could be brought to justice.
The end.
FuriousGiorge
April 23, 2009 at 03:43AM View BBCode
The thing is, a lot of that is just wrong. All that crap about them being bullied and needing counseling, that's just censored . Eric Harris was a straight-up sociopath. If he'd made it past high school without doing what he did, he'd have ended up murdering prostitutes and eating their brains (or he'd become a Marine [sorry] and all the other Marines would be really weirded out by him but too afraid to say anything, and then when he got back to the States he'd bury himself in ultra-right wing ideology and either blow something up or get into a firefight with the feds). Klebold was troubled and suicidal, and probably could have benefited from counseling, but it's certainly not because he was bullied. He was a depressive and he basically committed suicide by cop, with a little side detour and cutting out the middleman.
farfetched
These guys probably suffered the same as poor Allison from "The Breakfast Club."
Being an attention censored myself, I didn't necessarily appreciate being ignored for the most part in high school because I didn't listen to the freshest pop-trash, wear the name brand clothes, or go with the crowd on every little pile of inside joke censored . But I dealt with it in my own way, and at one point in life, I did actually receive counseling. Didn't help the way everyone probably intended it to (I refused to take meds) but I learned a little on how not to live in the past.
I was never bullied in school (well, a couple times in grade school, not high school, but I went and told the teacher like I was taught to do. and the principal dealt with those fuckheads.) but that's not to say being ignored wouldn't have had a similar effect on my psyche.
April 23, 2009 at 04:23AM View BBCode
It's not necessarily the idea of being bullied. I said "a school environment they can't deal with." That can apply to any kid who is unsatisfied with his lot in life, be he a jock, nerd, or she a princess or pariah.These guys probably suffered the same as poor Allison from "The Breakfast Club."
Being an attention censored myself, I didn't necessarily appreciate being ignored for the most part in high school because I didn't listen to the freshest pop-trash, wear the name brand clothes, or go with the crowd on every little pile of inside joke censored . But I dealt with it in my own way, and at one point in life, I did actually receive counseling. Didn't help the way everyone probably intended it to (I refused to take meds) but I learned a little on how not to live in the past.
I was never bullied in school (well, a couple times in grade school, not high school, but I went and told the teacher like I was taught to do. and the principal dealt with those fuckheads.) but that's not to say being ignored wouldn't have had a similar effect on my psyche.
khazim
what actually happened is this:
2 psychopaths planned to murder everyone in the school for over a year and if they hadn't have been so stupid to realize that black powder/gunpowder is hydrophilic, meaning it is attracted to water. Wet powder = no boom.
Between the pipe bombs and the propane tank bombs they planted in the cafeteria to explode during lunchtime, these two were well beyond a simple matter of outcasts lashing out.
They practiced with their firearms until they were very proficient in using them.
Something folks don't realize is these kids hit everything they aimed at. Damn lucky there weren't more dead.
April 23, 2009 at 04:24AM View BBCode
Originally posted by farfetched
Kids grow up in a school environment they can't deal with.
Kids are too ashamed to seek counseling, go for what they believe to be a justified vigilante approach. For the rest of us, galactically stupid.
Several innocents died at their hands, took themselves out of the picture before they could be brought to justice.
The end.
what actually happened is this:
2 psychopaths planned to murder everyone in the school for over a year and if they hadn't have been so stupid to realize that black powder/gunpowder is hydrophilic, meaning it is attracted to water. Wet powder = no boom.
Between the pipe bombs and the propane tank bombs they planted in the cafeteria to explode during lunchtime, these two were well beyond a simple matter of outcasts lashing out.
They practiced with their firearms until they were very proficient in using them.
Something folks don't realize is these kids hit everything they aimed at. Damn lucky there weren't more dead.
khazim
Since their medical records have never been released, we can't state for certain one way or the other.
For all we know these two were both low level sociopaths who fed off of each other, driving them to commit much worse acts than if either had acted alone.
We won't ever know.
April 23, 2009 at 05:09AM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Dylan Klebold was not a psychopath.
Since their medical records have never been released, we can't state for certain one way or the other.
For all we know these two were both low level sociopaths who fed off of each other, driving them to commit much worse acts than if either had acted alone.
We won't ever know.
FuriousGiorge
April 23, 2009 at 05:17AM View BBCode
There is plenty of information available about these two kids to draw some fairly solid conclusions.
khazim
There really isn't.
April 23, 2009 at 05:18AM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
There is plenty of information available about these two kids to draw some fairly solid conclusions.
There really isn't.
FuriousGiorge
April 23, 2009 at 05:25AM View BBCode
Just because you say it doesn't make it true. I'd suggest you read [url=http://www.slate.com/id/2099203/]this[/url], for starters.
Benne
Craig is right about the pair, frankly. Harris was an irredeemable sociopath, someone who aspired to be Timothy McVeigh (and, had he lived later to witness 9/11, Osama bin Laden). Klebold happened to be the troubled youth who turned to Harris as an outlet for his angst. (Or, to put it in nerd terms, the situation was similar to how Palpatine manipulated Anakin Skywalker)
I don't know, this isn't really something I like talking about. I was 12 when it happened, and it shook me to my core. 10 years later, I still shudder at the destruction they wrought, and cringe at the possibility that it could've been much worse.
April 23, 2009 at 06:46AM View BBCode
The article Craig linked to points out a very important fact; this was not a "school shooting", and to call it one is insultingly simplistic. This was a premeditated massacre, planned well in advance, with little to no provocation. It just happened to take place at a school.Craig is right about the pair, frankly. Harris was an irredeemable sociopath, someone who aspired to be Timothy McVeigh (and, had he lived later to witness 9/11, Osama bin Laden). Klebold happened to be the troubled youth who turned to Harris as an outlet for his angst. (Or, to put it in nerd terms, the situation was similar to how Palpatine manipulated Anakin Skywalker)
I don't know, this isn't really something I like talking about. I was 12 when it happened, and it shook me to my core. 10 years later, I still shudder at the destruction they wrought, and cringe at the possibility that it could've been much worse.
Duff77
Nonetheless, I think the long term lesson ought to be this: Watch who you're kicking around for the sake of kicking someone around. The dude is probably harmless, but he might be censored insane. Can we at least agree the social pressures and whatnot handed them a ready target?
April 28, 2009 at 08:22PM View BBCode
I was picked on a lot growing up, so, I understood why a sociopath would want to take revenge that way. That said, you have to be a sociopath first. Normal people in even the most unfair of circumstances don't consider mass murder to correct injustices.Nonetheless, I think the long term lesson ought to be this: Watch who you're kicking around for the sake of kicking someone around. The dude is probably harmless, but he might be censored insane. Can we at least agree the social pressures and whatnot handed them a ready target?
FuriousGiorge
April 28, 2009 at 08:24PM View BBCode
(No, because they weren't bullied. Did you even read this thing?)
khazim
April 29, 2009 at 03:45AM View BBCode
there was no bullying. They happened to try to top Timothy McVeigh's body count at a school.Pages: 1