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phen0m
Gold Glove Formula?
September 07, 2008 at 02:24AM View BBCode
Want to start a gold glove winners thread for my league... anyone have a good formula to use?
erod550
IF/OF/P: (FLD%*1,000) + (+/-*1/2) + (RF*15)
Catcher: (FLD%*1000) + (CS%*100) - (PB*2)
Minimum 110 games played for position players, 180 IP for pitchers.
I did not come up with these, I found them on another league's board. I would give credit to the originator if I remembered who it was, hehe.
September 07, 2008 at 10:35PM View BBCode
I use:IF/OF/P: (FLD%*1,000) + (+/-*1/2) + (RF*15)
Catcher: (FLD%*1000) + (CS%*100) - (PB*2)
Minimum 110 games played for position players, 180 IP for pitchers.
I did not come up with these, I found them on another league's board. I would give credit to the originator if I remembered who it was, hehe.
phen0m
Maybe im missing something, but why is range factor so heavily weighed, or even factored into the equation at ALL? To me, it has absolutely no relevance on how good/bad defensively someone is in SimD ball, and it was the determining factor alot of times when i ran some numbers.
A simpler version seems to make more sense to me
(FLD%*1000) + (+/-) + Assists(for outfielders)
I dont really see the need for anything else to be factored in.
September 08, 2008 at 01:45AM View BBCode
Thanks erod, i was browsing through leagues and seen yours and a couple others using this formula.Maybe im missing something, but why is range factor so heavily weighed, or even factored into the equation at ALL? To me, it has absolutely no relevance on how good/bad defensively someone is in SimD ball, and it was the determining factor alot of times when i ran some numbers.
A simpler version seems to make more sense to me
(FLD%*1000) + (+/-) + Assists(for outfielders)
I dont really see the need for anything else to be factored in.
barterer2002
Player A makes 1 error in 500 chances
Blayer B makes 0 errors in 240 chances
Both are starters at the same position and play roughly the same number of games. Player A should be the Gold Glove because, despite his lower fielding percentage, he is able to get to more balls.
Or, let me give MLB examples
Lets look at NL shortsstops in 1988.
Ozzie Smith made 22 errors and had a .972 fielding percentage that year
Shawon Dunston made 20 errors for a .973 fielding percentage.
Based on fielding percentage Dunston is more deserving of the gold glove than Smith was that year.
(Dunston played in 151 games, Smith in 150)
The reason, however, that Ozzie Smith is the greatest defensive shortstop ever, is not because he never made an error but rather because he could get to more balls.
In this comparision
Smith had 519 assists, 79 DPs and 234 POs for a range factor of 5.02 that season
Dunston had 455 assists, 76 DPs and 257 POs for a range factor of 4.72.
Now, clearly Dunston is a very good fielder (the league average in range that season was 3.99 meaning that Dunston would get to three balls every four games than an average shortstop wouldn't, however Smith would get to slightly more than 1 extra ball every game over an average shortstop) but the reason he's not as good as smith is not fully realized by the stats until you look at Range factor.
September 08, 2008 at 11:36AM View BBCode
Range is clearly a factor for the following reasonPlayer A makes 1 error in 500 chances
Blayer B makes 0 errors in 240 chances
Both are starters at the same position and play roughly the same number of games. Player A should be the Gold Glove because, despite his lower fielding percentage, he is able to get to more balls.
Or, let me give MLB examples
Lets look at NL shortsstops in 1988.
Ozzie Smith made 22 errors and had a .972 fielding percentage that year
Shawon Dunston made 20 errors for a .973 fielding percentage.
Based on fielding percentage Dunston is more deserving of the gold glove than Smith was that year.
(Dunston played in 151 games, Smith in 150)
The reason, however, that Ozzie Smith is the greatest defensive shortstop ever, is not because he never made an error but rather because he could get to more balls.
In this comparision
Smith had 519 assists, 79 DPs and 234 POs for a range factor of 5.02 that season
Dunston had 455 assists, 76 DPs and 257 POs for a range factor of 4.72.
Now, clearly Dunston is a very good fielder (the league average in range that season was 3.99 meaning that Dunston would get to three balls every four games than an average shortstop wouldn't, however Smith would get to slightly more than 1 extra ball every game over an average shortstop) but the reason he's not as good as smith is not fully realized by the stats until you look at Range factor.
erod550
Give me a guy with a slightly lower fielding percentage that gets to more balls any day. Even though he may have an extra error here and there, he's preventing hits on many more plays than he is making those extra errors on errors on. That makes him a much more valuable fielder to me.
September 08, 2008 at 12:55PM View BBCode
^^ What he said.Give me a guy with a slightly lower fielding percentage that gets to more balls any day. Even though he may have an extra error here and there, he's preventing hits on many more plays than he is making those extra errors on errors on. That makes him a much more valuable fielder to me.
phen0m
The importance of the range factor stat in SimDynasty ball is zero... at least until if or when the 'grid' system is put in. Basically the only factor on how many putouts/assists/total chances a defensive player gets per 9 innings is luck of the draw. You have a slight variance of good players making good plays and bad players making bad plays, but that is already accounted for by tallying the +/- plays, making range factor obsolete.
September 08, 2008 at 01:19PM View BBCode
You are correct Bart, range factor is a very important stat in real life, but as you can see by my post i am refering to SimDynasty.The importance of the range factor stat in SimDynasty ball is zero... at least until if or when the 'grid' system is put in. Basically the only factor on how many putouts/assists/total chances a defensive player gets per 9 innings is luck of the draw. You have a slight variance of good players making good plays and bad players making bad plays, but that is already accounted for by tallying the +/- plays, making range factor obsolete.
barterer2002
September 08, 2008 at 01:36PM View BBCode
Well it depends on what you're trying to do doesn't it. If you're trying to do a gold glove then I would say that the data is as relevant as any other statistic created by the sim.
phen0m
Maybe i was misunderstood, the only point of my post was saying that that gold glove formula is flawed(at least for SimDynasty Ball), not that fielding % is more important than range or anything of that nature.
September 08, 2008 at 01:48PM View BBCode
Originally posted by erod550
^^ What he said.
Give me a guy with a slightly lower fielding percentage that gets to more balls any day. Even though he may have an extra error here and there, he's preventing hits on many more plays than he is making those extra errors on errors on. That makes him a much more valuable fielder to me.
Maybe i was misunderstood, the only point of my post was saying that that gold glove formula is flawed(at least for SimDynasty Ball), not that fielding % is more important than range or anything of that nature.
Hamilton2
Do you have actual examples of where this stat is mis-applied?
September 08, 2008 at 03:43PM View BBCode
Range factor is just as valid in the sim as in real life. Player's with better range tend to have better range factors.Do you have actual examples of where this stat is mis-applied?
phen0m
Any position player A has 75 arm/75 range
Any position player B has 50 arm/50 range
given the exact same variables, same pitchers pitching, same opposing hitters hitting and same amount of luck of the draw(of balls being hit to them etc.) they should get the same amount of base chances. Then factor in the +/- plays, lets say player A totals at about +5, and Player B totals at about 0. Throw in player B probably making a few more errors, player A will obviously end up with a little bit higher range factor, based solely on making more + plays and less errors. player A wins the Gold Glove as he should.
now take the same example but with different variables, maybe player B has less strikeout pitchers on his team, leading to a few more chances for him, plus maybe he just happens to gets 'lucky' and has alot more balls being hit to him than player A. Now player B ends up with a higher Range Factor than player A even though player A has made more + plays and also has made less errors. With how much RF is weighed in this formula, IF/OF/P: (FLD%*1,000) + (+/-*1/2) + (RF*15), player B has a very good chance to win the gold glove, pretty much based solely on luck, since player A is clearly the better fielder.
In summary, the range factor stat in *SimD* is practically obsolete(at least in determining skill) and in my opinion should not be used in determining gold glover winners, because pretty much the only factors that are factored into it are luck, +/- plays and errors made, and we can see the +/- and errors stat individually, so really all that the RF stat is telling us is who got happened to get 'luckier' and have more defensive oppurtunities per game.
September 09, 2008 at 07:45AM View BBCode
Lets say...Any position player A has 75 arm/75 range
Any position player B has 50 arm/50 range
given the exact same variables, same pitchers pitching, same opposing hitters hitting and same amount of luck of the draw(of balls being hit to them etc.) they should get the same amount of base chances. Then factor in the +/- plays, lets say player A totals at about +5, and Player B totals at about 0. Throw in player B probably making a few more errors, player A will obviously end up with a little bit higher range factor, based solely on making more + plays and less errors. player A wins the Gold Glove as he should.
now take the same example but with different variables, maybe player B has less strikeout pitchers on his team, leading to a few more chances for him, plus maybe he just happens to gets 'lucky' and has alot more balls being hit to him than player A. Now player B ends up with a higher Range Factor than player A even though player A has made more + plays and also has made less errors. With how much RF is weighed in this formula, IF/OF/P: (FLD%*1,000) + (+/-*1/2) + (RF*15), player B has a very good chance to win the gold glove, pretty much based solely on luck, since player A is clearly the better fielder.
In summary, the range factor stat in *SimD* is practically obsolete(at least in determining skill) and in my opinion should not be used in determining gold glover winners, because pretty much the only factors that are factored into it are luck, +/- plays and errors made, and we can see the +/- and errors stat individually, so really all that the RF stat is telling us is who got happened to get 'luckier' and have more defensive oppurtunities per game.
barterer2002
September 09, 2008 at 11:27AM View BBCode
Well then lets put it this way. If the numbers should even out and range factor in SD is irrelevant as you've stated then multiplying by the range factor will just be multiplying by a constant with little effect.
phen0m
[url=http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=11475737&statsorimps=fielding]Player A[/url] +19 with zero errors
[url=http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=11528055&statsorimps=fielding]Player B[/url] +1 with 3 errors
Who leads the Gold glove race, and by a pretty good margin? You guessed it, Player B, because of a range factor 0.90 higher than Player A.
What team's pitching is dead last in strikeouts? You guessed it, player B's.
Can we just get rid of the gold glove awards if this silly formula isn't going to be changed?
October 04, 2015 at 04:06PM View BBCode
7 years later... same nonsensical gold glove formula[url=http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=11475737&statsorimps=fielding]Player A[/url] +19 with zero errors
[url=http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=11528055&statsorimps=fielding]Player B[/url] +1 with 3 errors
Who leads the Gold glove race, and by a pretty good margin? You guessed it, Player B, because of a range factor 0.90 higher than Player A.
What team's pitching is dead last in strikeouts? You guessed it, player B's.
Can we just get rid of the gold glove awards if this silly formula isn't going to be changed?
tworoosters
But then all the award formulas are bad. All Stars is a health contest, MVP is a best right fielder/SS on a winning team contest and Rookie of the year is just the AS formula with some sort of bonus for over working pitchers.
October 05, 2015 at 12:46AM View BBCode
It's a terrible formula, probably the worst one in the sim, Tyson always said that if a league wanted to use an alternate formula they could but since Tyson no longer seems involved in the Sim I doubt it's possible.But then all the award formulas are bad. All Stars is a health contest, MVP is a best right fielder/SS on a winning team contest and Rookie of the year is just the AS formula with some sort of bonus for over working pitchers.
Michael1
October 06, 2015 at 08:05PM View BBCode
Real life GG is really a hitter award with some sort of glove work figured in by the Rawlings company so why is everyone bitching a sabrmetric formula?
tworoosters
Rawlings have zero to do with the criteria, GGs are awarded by a vote among managers and coaches. The "hitter award" thing would, of course, explain the eight GGs awarded to [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belanma01.shtml]Mark Belanger[/url] and [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/blairpa01.shtml]Paul Blair[/url] or the nine for [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aparilu01.shtml]Luis Aparicio[/url] .
October 06, 2015 at 10:10PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Michael1
Real life GG is really a hitter award with some sort of glove work figured in by the Rawlings ?
Rawlings have zero to do with the criteria, GGs are awarded by a vote among managers and coaches. The "hitter award" thing would, of course, explain the eight GGs awarded to [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belanma01.shtml]Mark Belanger[/url] and [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/blairpa01.shtml]Paul Blair[/url] or the nine for [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aparilu01.shtml]Luis Aparicio[/url] .
Hamilton2
Wow. Look at this moron from 7 years ago. Totally doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, clearly.
Range factor is actually almost entire meaningless in the sim. The distribution of batted balls is assigned by position based on a pre-determined % formula. There is some variance if you have a higher velocity pitching staff (fewer balls in play, lower range factors) and there is some variance depending on the aggressiveness of defensive shifts and whatnot. There is nothing about the range factor in simD that provides valuable intel regarding the gold glove worthiness of a fielder.
Man, that guy. What an idiot. LOL
October 07, 2015 at 03:27AM View BBCode
Originally posted by Hamilton2
Range factor is just as valid in the sim as in real life. Player's with better range tend to have better range factors.
Do you have actual examples of where this stat is mis-applied?
Wow. Look at this moron from 7 years ago. Totally doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, clearly.
Range factor is actually almost entire meaningless in the sim. The distribution of batted balls is assigned by position based on a pre-determined % formula. There is some variance if you have a higher velocity pitching staff (fewer balls in play, lower range factors) and there is some variance depending on the aggressiveness of defensive shifts and whatnot. There is nothing about the range factor in simD that provides valuable intel regarding the gold glove worthiness of a fielder.
Man, that guy. What an idiot. LOL
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