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Smocko
C-c-c-college Football
November 19, 2006 at 07:20AM View BBCode
Ohio won the thing, if you haven't heard, despite the wave of dead coach sympathy rooting for Michigan.
max_fischer
November 19, 2006 at 11:41AM View BBCode
The real mourning should be saved for the Scarlet Knights of Rutgers. I really wanted them to make the BCS title game...
lvnwrth
Why is this sad? Logic SHOULD prevail. It probably WON'T, but it should.
The #2 team went ON THE ROAD and lost to the #1 TEAM by THREE POINTS.
That's what's SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN when #1 plays #2 in their backyard. Their is absolutely no justification to drop Michigan any lower than #2 in the polls. And as long as that doesn't happen, it doesn't matter what USC does.
November 19, 2006 at 02:01PM View BBCode
Originally posted by bobcat73
Yes and sadly USC won also.
Why is this sad? Logic SHOULD prevail. It probably WON'T, but it should.
The #2 team went ON THE ROAD and lost to the #1 TEAM by THREE POINTS.
That's what's SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN when #1 plays #2 in their backyard. Their is absolutely no justification to drop Michigan any lower than #2 in the polls. And as long as that doesn't happen, it doesn't matter what USC does.
rkinslow19
Rank them wherever you want, as long as they don't play in the title game.
If you don't win your conference, you don't deserve a shot at the national championship.
Best playoff system in the world man.
November 19, 2006 at 05:02PM View BBCode
Originally posted by lvnwrth
Originally posted by bobcat73
Yes and sadly USC won also.
Why is this sad? Logic SHOULD prevail. It probably WON'T, but it should.
The #2 team went ON THE ROAD and lost to the #1 TEAM by THREE POINTS.
That's what's SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN when #1 plays #2 in their backyard. Their is absolutely no justification to drop Michigan any lower than #2 in the polls. And as long as that doesn't happen, it doesn't matter what USC does.
Rank them wherever you want, as long as they don't play in the title game.
If you don't win your conference, you don't deserve a shot at the national championship.
Best playoff system in the world man.
lvnwrth
If that's what you want, then the BCS commissioners need to change the rules to state that. As it is, if anyone other than Michigan plays Ohio State, then you don't have #1 and #2 playing in the title game. And if USC gets there and beats Ohio State, and Michigan wins the Rose Bowl, then Michigan should be #1.
USC's loss...Oregon State.
Michigan's loss...Ohio State.
That says all that needs to be said right there.
Go Irish!
BTW, I'm not a Michigan fan. Heck, I don't even like the Big 10 conference. But right is right and fair is fair. The way the BCS rules are right now, there is no prohibition against either rematches or a team that does not win its conference playing in the title game. Don't like that, change the rules. But under the rules as they exist now, Michigan still deserves to be #2 and in that title game.
November 19, 2006 at 05:08PM View BBCode
Originally posted by rkinslow19
Rank them wherever you want, as long as they don't play in the title game.
If you don't win your conference, you don't deserve a shot at the national championship.
Best playoff system in the world man.
If that's what you want, then the BCS commissioners need to change the rules to state that. As it is, if anyone other than Michigan plays Ohio State, then you don't have #1 and #2 playing in the title game. And if USC gets there and beats Ohio State, and Michigan wins the Rose Bowl, then Michigan should be #1.
USC's loss...Oregon State.
Michigan's loss...Ohio State.
That says all that needs to be said right there.
Go Irish!
BTW, I'm not a Michigan fan. Heck, I don't even like the Big 10 conference. But right is right and fair is fair. The way the BCS rules are right now, there is no prohibition against either rematches or a team that does not win its conference playing in the title game. Don't like that, change the rules. But under the rules as they exist now, Michigan still deserves to be #2 and in that title game.
rkinslow19
Michigan's out of conference: Vanderbilt, Central Michigan, Notre Dame, Ball State
USC's out of conference: Arkansas, Nebraska, Notre Dame
If you want to only talk about losses, then USC and Michigan each have one. But don't leave out quality wins either. Let's say they both beat Notre Dame. Then USC has also beaten Arkansas, a top-5/10 team, and Nebraska, who is ranked #19
November 19, 2006 at 05:50PM View BBCode
Originally posted by lvnwrth
Originally posted by rkinslow19
Rank them wherever you want, as long as they don't play in the title game.
If you don't win your conference, you don't deserve a shot at the national championship.
Best playoff system in the world man.
If that's what you want, then the BCS commissioners need to change the rules to state that. As it is, if anyone other than Michigan plays Ohio State, then you don't have #1 and #2 playing in the title game. And if USC gets there and beats Ohio State, and Michigan wins the Rose Bowl, then Michigan should be #1.
USC's loss...Oregon State.
Michigan's loss...Ohio State.
That says all that needs to be said right there.
Go Irish!
BTW, I'm not a Michigan fan. Heck, I don't even like the Big 10 conference. But right is right and fair is fair. The way the BCS rules are right now, there is no prohibition against either rematches or a team that does not win its conference playing in the title game. Don't like that, change the rules. But under the rules as they exist now, Michigan still deserves to be #2 and in that title game.
Michigan's out of conference: Vanderbilt, Central Michigan, Notre Dame, Ball State
USC's out of conference: Arkansas, Nebraska, Notre Dame
If you want to only talk about losses, then USC and Michigan each have one. But don't leave out quality wins either. Let's say they both beat Notre Dame. Then USC has also beaten Arkansas, a top-5/10 team, and Nebraska, who is ranked #19
lvnwrth
Michigan loss? #1 team in the country.
USC loss? Oregon State.
Put Michigan and USC on a neutral field and what's the Vegas line?
As I asked in another post...if Michigan lost to Ohio State 3 weeks ago and USC lost to Oregon State yesterday, would we even be having this discussion?
Michigan is still the #2 team in the country. Don't like the rules? Change them. I'm fine with that. But don't pretend Michigan isn't the #2 team in the country because it messes up the BCS. Instead, fix the BCS.
November 19, 2006 at 06:10PM View BBCode
Not impressed. Michigan strength of schedule? 13. Southern Cal strength of schedule? 16.Michigan loss? #1 team in the country.
USC loss? Oregon State.
Put Michigan and USC on a neutral field and what's the Vegas line?
As I asked in another post...if Michigan lost to Ohio State 3 weeks ago and USC lost to Oregon State yesterday, would we even be having this discussion?
Michigan is still the #2 team in the country. Don't like the rules? Change them. I'm fine with that. But don't pretend Michigan isn't the #2 team in the country because it messes up the BCS. Instead, fix the BCS.
Bones2484
According to who? Sagarin has USC #3 and Michigan #12 in SoS.
Also according to Sagarin (because like I said in another post, it is usually right on) a neutral field would have USC favored by 2 points if Overall Rating is used, and 5 points of the Predictor column is used.
I also wouldnt be surprised to see USC ranked #3 in most computers. But don't forget, a W is worth A LOT in the computer rankings... and right now we have 2 fewer games, and thus 2 fewer wins, than Michigan. I wouldn't be surprised to see us move ahead of them in most of the computers if we win out.
[Edited on 11-19-2006 by Bones2484]
November 19, 2006 at 06:16PM View BBCode
Originally posted by lvnwrth
Not impressed. Michigan strength of schedule? 13. Southern Cal strength of schedule? 16.
According to who? Sagarin has USC #3 and Michigan #12 in SoS.
Originally posted by lvnwrth
Put Michigan and USC on a neutral field and what's the Vegas line?
Also according to Sagarin (because like I said in another post, it is usually right on) a neutral field would have USC favored by 2 points if Overall Rating is used, and 5 points of the Predictor column is used.
I also wouldnt be surprised to see USC ranked #3 in most computers. But don't forget, a W is worth A LOT in the computer rankings... and right now we have 2 fewer games, and thus 2 fewer wins, than Michigan. I wouldn't be surprised to see us move ahead of them in most of the computers if we win out.
[Edited on 11-19-2006 by Bones2484]
lvnwrth
CBS SportsLine...which also shows Florida ranked 3rd in the country and USC fourth. So why wouldn't Florida be in line for the BCS shot if it can't be Michigan?
November 19, 2006 at 06:20PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Bones2484
Originally posted by lvnwrth
Not impressed. Michigan strength of schedule? 13. Southern Cal strength of schedule? 16.
According to who? Sagarin has USC #3 and Michigan #12 in SoS.
CBS SportsLine...which also shows Florida ranked 3rd in the country and USC fourth. So why wouldn't Florida be in line for the BCS shot if it can't be Michigan?
rkinslow19
Yes, USC lost to Oregon State. I'm over it, you should accept it and move on.
Michigan has an inferior schedule, as referenced by bones, lost to the best team on their schedule, and did not win their conference.
USC has one of the toughest schedules in the country, BEAT the best team on their schedule, and is a conference champion.
I suggest you go simulate a couple seasons of NCAA on your playstation until Michigan ends up in the national championship. Because it isn't happening in real life.
November 19, 2006 at 06:20PM View BBCode
Would you like to continue your whining? Michigan is not the #2 team in the country. USA Today already has USC at 2, and Michigan at 3.Yes, USC lost to Oregon State. I'm over it, you should accept it and move on.
Michigan has an inferior schedule, as referenced by bones, lost to the best team on their schedule, and did not win their conference.
USC has one of the toughest schedules in the country, BEAT the best team on their schedule, and is a conference champion.
I suggest you go simulate a couple seasons of NCAA on your playstation until Michigan ends up in the national championship. Because it isn't happening in real life.
Bones2484
Since when is CBS Sportsline used for anything important?
November 19, 2006 at 06:21PM View BBCode
Originally posted by lvnwrth
Originally posted by Bones2484
Originally posted by lvnwrth
Not impressed. Michigan strength of schedule? 13. Southern Cal strength of schedule? 16.
According to who? Sagarin has USC #3 and Michigan #12 in SoS.
CBS SportsLine...which also shows Florida ranked 3rd in the country and USC fourth. So why wouldn't Florida be in line for the BCS shot if it can't be Michigan?
Since when is CBS Sportsline used for anything important?
rkinslow19
Since it's easier to support your faulty case with polls that no one cares about.
November 19, 2006 at 06:25PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Bones2484
Since when is CBS Sportsline used for anything important?
Since it's easier to support your faulty case with polls that no one cares about.
Bones2484
Anyone else find it ironic that the SEC broadcast station would have Florida ranked ahead of USC?
Yea... neither do I.
November 19, 2006 at 06:27PM View BBCode
Originally posted by rkinslow19
Originally posted by Bones2484
Since when is CBS Sportsline used for anything important?
Since it's easier to support your faulty case with polls that no one cares about.
Anyone else find it ironic that the SEC broadcast station would have Florida ranked ahead of USC?
Yea... neither do I.
lvnwrth
November 19, 2006 at 06:27PM View BBCode
Originally posted by rkinslow19
Would you like to continue your whining? [/qhote]
Who's whining? I'm simply presenting an entirely credible argument, which you are unable to refute.
Michigan is not the #2 team in the country. USA Today already has USC at 2, and Michigan at 3.
Which simply shows that the BCS mess factored into how the voters cast their votes.
I never denied that this was how it would turn out. I simply showed why it shouldn't.
Yes, USC lost to Oregon State. I'm over it, you should accept it and move on.
Yes, they did. And that's enough to make them NOT the #2 team in the country.
Michigan has an inferior schedule, as referenced by bones, lost to the best team on their schedule, and did not win their conference.
Well, they didn't have an inferior schedule according CBS Sportsline. If there are others who show they did, fine. If losing to the best team on your schedule is a damning indictment, what is losing to Oregon State...the fifth or sixth best team on USC's schedule? And as I've said, in the BCS criteria as they exist today, winning your conference is irrelevant. You just have to keep bringing it up because its the only argument you have.
USC has one of the toughest schedules in the country, BEAT the best team on their schedule, and is a conference champion.
But not quite as tough as Michigan, according to CBS at least; LOST to the 5th or 6th best team on their schedule; and winning their conference...again...is irrelevant, at least as the BCS criteria are currently set up.
I suggest you go simulate a couple seasons of NCAA on your playstation until Michigan ends up in the national championship. Because it isn't happening in real life.
That you would even suggest such a thing proves that we are worlds apart in points of reference.
Go Irish!
Bones2484
There is absolutely NO reason why ND should get a chance at OSU over Michigan considering what happened earlier this season at ND.
This, I think, would spell doom for the BCS. And even though I am rooting for USC to win out, I think it would be pretty hilarious to watch play out.
November 19, 2006 at 06:31PM View BBCode
The only way I will possibly argue that Michigan deserves a rematch is if USC loses to ND, Ark loses to LSU, and Florida loses to Ark.There is absolutely NO reason why ND should get a chance at OSU over Michigan considering what happened earlier this season at ND.
This, I think, would spell doom for the BCS. And even though I am rooting for USC to win out, I think it would be pretty hilarious to watch play out.
lvnwrth
Not at all. The AP Poll and the Coaches Poll both had Florida at #3 last week. If anyon'e moving past Michigan, why wouldn't it be Florida?
November 19, 2006 at 06:32PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Bones2484
Anyone else find it ironic that the SEC broadcast station would have Florida ranked ahead of USC?
Yea... neither do I.
Not at all. The AP Poll and the Coaches Poll both had Florida at #3 last week. If anyon'e moving past Michigan, why wouldn't it be Florida?
Bones2484
Might wanna check.
November 19, 2006 at 06:34PM View BBCode
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankingsindexMight wanna check.
rkinslow19
I'm not even sure if that's an actual school, or just a voting district.
November 19, 2006 at 06:46PM View BBCode
What, you weren't impressed by the win over Western Kentucky?I'm not even sure if that's an actual school, or just a voting district.
Bones2484
Have you heard anything about this? Could be fun to see the two most hated schools in the country play each other.
November 19, 2006 at 06:48PM View BBCode
Hey Kinslow. I overheard last night at the game that we are currently working with Miami to be our 3rd non-conference next season since Idaho is too scared (rightfully so) to play us.Have you heard anything about this? Could be fun to see the two most hated schools in the country play each other.
rkinslow19
November 19, 2006 at 07:09PM View BBCode
Yea, and then we've got a home and home with Ohio State after that
Bones2484
Yup. I can't wait for that one.
Already trying to get tickets worked out to head to Columbus. Since I went to ND last year, the Horseshoe is now the top of my list to visit.
November 19, 2006 at 07:14PM View BBCode
Originally posted by rkinslow19
Yea, and then we've got a home and home with Ohio State after that
Yup. I can't wait for that one.
Already trying to get tickets worked out to head to Columbus. Since I went to ND last year, the Horseshoe is now the top of my list to visit.
barterer2002
1) USC is not in the same class with Miami as one of the most hated schools in the country. There is a sentiment to knock them off because they've certainly been the best team over the past three to five seasons buts that's more about rooting for the underdog than "hating" USC. The two of you may perceive hatred for USC simply because of you own attitudes that the National Championship Game is a birthright for USC and that anyone who argues otherwise "hates" USC.
2). I totally agree with Kinslow that Michigan should not get a rematch. I understand your point lvnwrth that its supposed to be that way but I agree that the National Championship game shouldn't feature two teams from the same conference. Michigan had to go to OSU to play, that's the breaks of the conference schedule this year. Last year OSU went to Michigan and next year as well, conference schedules can be a bear but you play to win the conference and then, if you win the conference you can go on to the national championship.
3). USC still has to beat ND which isn't a given although its being treated as such thus far in this thread.
November 19, 2006 at 07:32PM View BBCode
Lets straighten out a couple of things here.1) USC is not in the same class with Miami as one of the most hated schools in the country. There is a sentiment to knock them off because they've certainly been the best team over the past three to five seasons buts that's more about rooting for the underdog than "hating" USC. The two of you may perceive hatred for USC simply because of you own attitudes that the National Championship Game is a birthright for USC and that anyone who argues otherwise "hates" USC.
2). I totally agree with Kinslow that Michigan should not get a rematch. I understand your point lvnwrth that its supposed to be that way but I agree that the National Championship game shouldn't feature two teams from the same conference. Michigan had to go to OSU to play, that's the breaks of the conference schedule this year. Last year OSU went to Michigan and next year as well, conference schedules can be a bear but you play to win the conference and then, if you win the conference you can go on to the national championship.
3). USC still has to beat ND which isn't a given although its being treated as such thus far in this thread.
Bones2484
Nah, I dont think that. If I had to say, ND would be the most hated team in the country... but they also have such a HUGE following that basically cancels that one out. I also don't think it's a birthright for us... perhaps you missed all my comments in other threads that we didnt deserve a spot in the NC this season? Well, that is until our team finally woke up.
But you're right, by "hatred" i mainly meant that people will cheer for us to lose... not anywhere near the "hatred" that is for Miami across the country. They are nowhere near on the same level... but I just think it would be interesting to see who the country would root for in a game that most fans are used to rooting against both teams.
[Edited on 11-19-2006 by Bones2484]
November 19, 2006 at 07:44PM View BBCode
Originally posted by barterer2002
1) USC is not in the same class with Miami as one of the most hated schools in the country. There is a sentiment to knock them off because they've certainly been the best team over the past three to five seasons buts that's more about rooting for the underdog than "hating" USC. The two of you may perceive hatred for USC simply because of you own attitudes that the National Championship Game is a birthright for USC and that anyone who argues otherwise "hates" USC.
Nah, I dont think that. If I had to say, ND would be the most hated team in the country... but they also have such a HUGE following that basically cancels that one out. I also don't think it's a birthright for us... perhaps you missed all my comments in other threads that we didnt deserve a spot in the NC this season? Well, that is until our team finally woke up.
But you're right, by "hatred" i mainly meant that people will cheer for us to lose... not anywhere near the "hatred" that is for Miami across the country. They are nowhere near on the same level... but I just think it would be interesting to see who the country would root for in a game that most fans are used to rooting against both teams.
[Edited on 11-19-2006 by Bones2484]
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