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barterer2002
Tim, the reason here is simple. You offer John Doe who is OS29 an 8 year contract. He signs with you because you get the bump from offering 2 years into decline, you made the bid knowing that there was a risk that he wasn't going to play one or two of those years at the end of the contract and accepted that risk because you wanted the bump you get from 8 years that you don't get from 6. Lets be honest, you and I and most vets can make a player retire if we want to get out from under that contract. Take your 10M starting pitcher, throw him in relief a few times til his ERA becomes 8 and ship him to the minors. Nobody is claiming him with 10M of decline years on his contract (if they do that's great too) and at the end of the year you get out from under that final year when he retires.
August 24, 2010 at 01:40AM View BBCode
Well I think one of the reasons we went against the idea of players being forced not to retire was because it wasn't automated. Personally I didn't want to have Jet (or another admin) responsible for factors like that. Our attempts were trying to makes something sustainable in the long term and long term it was more reasonable to have owners bite the bullet.Tim, the reason here is simple. You offer John Doe who is OS29 an 8 year contract. He signs with you because you get the bump from offering 2 years into decline, you made the bid knowing that there was a risk that he wasn't going to play one or two of those years at the end of the contract and accepted that risk because you wanted the bump you get from 8 years that you don't get from 6. Lets be honest, you and I and most vets can make a player retire if we want to get out from under that contract. Take your 10M starting pitcher, throw him in relief a few times til his ERA becomes 8 and ship him to the minors. Nobody is claiming him with 10M of decline years on his contract (if they do that's great too) and at the end of the year you get out from under that final year when he retires.
Shaheen
I agree. I would make players under contract never retire.
August 24, 2010 at 01:00PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Admin
You have to remember that all of these formulas were created outside the system. There wasn't a way for the AML to prevent retirements.
I think it would be realistic and make sense to have players under contract never retire.
Tyson
I agree. I would make players under contract never retire.
tm4559
i don't believe i disagreed with any of this. if they simply won't retire if they're under contract, then you always have to pay the contract you gave them. so everyone is happy, right? problem solved?
August 24, 2010 at 01:47PM View BBCode
Originally posted by barterer2002
Tim, the reason here is simple. You offer John Doe who is OS29 an 8 year contract. He signs with you because you get the bump from offering 2 years into decline, you made the bid knowing that there was a risk that he wasn't going to play one or two of those years at the end of the contract and accepted that risk because you wanted the bump you get from 8 years that you don't get from 6. Lets be honest, you and I and most vets can make a player retire if we want to get out from under that contract. Take your 10M starting pitcher, throw him in relief a few times til his ERA becomes 8 and ship him to the minors. Nobody is claiming him with 10M of decline years on his contract (if they do that's great too) and at the end of the year you get out from under that final year when he retires.
i don't believe i disagreed with any of this. if they simply won't retire if they're under contract, then you always have to pay the contract you gave them. so everyone is happy, right? problem solved?
barterer2002
August 24, 2010 at 02:32PM View BBCode
Yes I was explaining why the AML didn't do that originally.
thatrogue
August 24, 2010 at 02:56PM View BBCode
For some reason, I cannot trade draft picks in the ASL. Is that customary in beta leagues?
tm4559
(i believe some of them were traded in the TSL though.)
August 24, 2010 at 03:01PM View BBCode
i don't know. it would be realistic i guess, since MLB can't do that. but perhaps tyson turned them off since we're only playing a season or two, and they don't make sense.(i believe some of them were traded in the TSL though.)
tm4559
your explanation made perfect sense, yes. since we're trying to figure out a way to automate the thing, and cut out all the extra work you guys had to do over there, this seems the way to go, i suppose.
(we truly want the thing to run alone. after all the bugs are worked out of the salary/signing/contracts/retirement, etc end we should move right on to incoporating revenues, signing of high draft picks, comphensation picks for departing free agents and for high picks that refuse to sign, rule 5, stuff like that. at that point, we would have something like a complete framework).
i know revenues seem like a big hill to climb, but you could hae some things in there like player talent (folks turn out to see good players), player and team promise (folks turning out to see the young improving team, the team of the future thing), past sucess, present sucess, increased attendance for pennant races and special promotions (teams would use up available money below their cap on special events), concessions (the concessions income would got up the attendance, of course, the attendance coming from those other factors up there) stuff like that, TV money, merchandising, plus a buch of random factors. all this would generate a sort of income stream, a team would have revenues and payroll. it is quite exciting, really, when you think about it.
[Edited on 8-24-2010 by tm4559]
August 24, 2010 at 03:17PM View BBCode
Originally posted by barterer2002
Yes I was explaining why the AML didn't do that originally.
your explanation made perfect sense, yes. since we're trying to figure out a way to automate the thing, and cut out all the extra work you guys had to do over there, this seems the way to go, i suppose.
(we truly want the thing to run alone. after all the bugs are worked out of the salary/signing/contracts/retirement, etc end we should move right on to incoporating revenues, signing of high draft picks, comphensation picks for departing free agents and for high picks that refuse to sign, rule 5, stuff like that. at that point, we would have something like a complete framework).
i know revenues seem like a big hill to climb, but you could hae some things in there like player talent (folks turn out to see good players), player and team promise (folks turning out to see the young improving team, the team of the future thing), past sucess, present sucess, increased attendance for pennant races and special promotions (teams would use up available money below their cap on special events), concessions (the concessions income would got up the attendance, of course, the attendance coming from those other factors up there) stuff like that, TV money, merchandising, plus a buch of random factors. all this would generate a sort of income stream, a team would have revenues and payroll. it is quite exciting, really, when you think about it.
[Edited on 8-24-2010 by tm4559]
thatrogue
You'd have to spend money on draftee signing bonuses as well as free agents...and would have to negotiate contract extensions with existing players (impacted by their loyalty scores and the strength of your organization...some players, coaches, managers, and scouts perferred money, other players preferred winning organizations).
It was geeky enough to be cool to me.
[Edited on 8-24-2010 by thatrogue]
August 24, 2010 at 04:25PM View BBCode
I once played a computer sim (OOTP Baseball...it was not online back then) that had much of that included. Teams would have a certain popularity or fan approval rating (as would players). If you were a winning team, held cool promotions, or signed players with high popularity scores, your approval rating would increase, as would attendance and your local & national TV revenues. (Attendance was also impacted by how you set your average ticket prices.)You'd have to spend money on draftee signing bonuses as well as free agents...and would have to negotiate contract extensions with existing players (impacted by their loyalty scores and the strength of your organization...some players, coaches, managers, and scouts perferred money, other players preferred winning organizations).
It was geeky enough to be cool to me.
[Edited on 8-24-2010 by thatrogue]
tm4559
(although i realize we are doing free agency kind of more on the NFL model, i guess we can just imagine most of the money coming from the fat TV contract or something. i don't even know that that stuff i mention up there even has any validity in the context of a capped salary system.)
August 24, 2010 at 04:31PM View BBCode
it seems a natural extension of incorporating free agency.(although i realize we are doing free agency kind of more on the NFL model, i guess we can just imagine most of the money coming from the fat TV contract or something. i don't even know that that stuff i mention up there even has any validity in the context of a capped salary system.)