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lvnwrth
This would be the reason that NBC rushed OJ Simpson right back into an analyst's role after he was acquitted, right? Or why he's been so popular in slapstick comedy roles in movies the last few years, like in the Naked Gun movies, right?
Oh? That didn't happen? But he was acquitted in a court of law.
I'm not a judge or a juror or a law enforcement officer. But I am literate and I have followed the steroids debacle as it unfolded. I have an informed opinion. You have access to the same information and have a different opinion. And we're both free not only to hold differing opinions, but to express them. I LOVE THIS COUNTRY!
Our courts of law say innocent until proven guilty. Our court of public opinion doesn't recognize that law. Many literate, well-informed people believe that OJ Simpson got away with murder. Many literate, well-informed people believe that Barry Bonds used steroids. I'm actually more convinced of the latter than of the former.
September 16, 2005 at 11:24PM View BBCode
Whatever happened to innocent till PROVEN guilty?
This would be the reason that NBC rushed OJ Simpson right back into an analyst's role after he was acquitted, right? Or why he's been so popular in slapstick comedy roles in movies the last few years, like in the Naked Gun movies, right?
Oh? That didn't happen? But he was acquitted in a court of law.
I'm not a judge or a juror or a law enforcement officer. But I am literate and I have followed the steroids debacle as it unfolded. I have an informed opinion. You have access to the same information and have a different opinion. And we're both free not only to hold differing opinions, but to express them. I LOVE THIS COUNTRY!
Our courts of law say innocent until proven guilty. Our court of public opinion doesn't recognize that law. Many literate, well-informed people believe that OJ Simpson got away with murder. Many literate, well-informed people believe that Barry Bonds used steroids. I'm actually more convinced of the latter than of the former.
FuriousGiorge
September 16, 2005 at 11:32PM View BBCode
Barry Bonds kidnaps babies from their homes and sells them on the black market to organ traffickers.
lvnwrth
September 16, 2005 at 11:41PM View BBCode
You don't say? I'd never heard or read that anywhere before. Since you're hardly a credibly source I'll have to come down on Barry's side on this one, till you can prove what you say.
FuriousGiorge
September 16, 2005 at 11:51PM View BBCode
Barry Bonds skins his victims and eats their flesh while they are still alive.
bobcat73
September 17, 2005 at 12:36AM View BBCode
Most painful games ever was 1 thru 4 of the 1989 W.S. Every game was like getting skined. Only good moment was Greg Liton making game 4 close. It still hurts and I have not been a Giants fan since 1995.
lvnwrth
September 17, 2005 at 01:11AM View BBCode
How does one go about this business of "not being a fan of 'X' team anymore"? I've never understood that. Either you're a fan or you're not. It's kind of like your ethnicity or your gender. If you can change it, then it wasn't really you to begin with.
lvnwrth
Most painful loss for me, personally, was Game 7, 1968 World Series. Curt Flood, normally a brilliant center fielder, misplayed a Jim Northrup fly ball that should have been the third out of the 6th inning, into a 2-run triple and the Cards wound up losing 4-1.
September 17, 2005 at 01:52AM View BBCode
Actually, getting back to the thread topic...Most painful loss for me, personally, was Game 7, 1968 World Series. Curt Flood, normally a brilliant center fielder, misplayed a Jim Northrup fly ball that should have been the third out of the 6th inning, into a 2-run triple and the Cards wound up losing 4-1.
Dragon_Volant
Other painful losses that haven't come up yet:
The 1912 World Series, game 8, when the Giants blundered away a World Series win.
Cleveland shortstop Ray Chapman becomes the only fatally hit batter in baseball history in 1920.
Also in 1920, a significant portion of the Chicago White Sox is indicted for actions allegedly taken the year before.
In the 1924 World Series, the Giants get victimized by the same damn pebble twice in Game 7.
In the 1926 World Series, it didn't help that Tony Lazzeri struck out with the bases loaded in Game 7, but Babe Ruth makes the final out by getting caught stealing.
Or how about the 1962 World Series, where Willie McCovey was so close to getting a hit and driving in a run, but lined out sharply to end Game 7 instead.
There's also the 1966 World Series, where the Dodgers really got pwned. They scored just two runs, and all of their scoring was done by the third inning of Game 1.
[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Dragon_Volant]
September 17, 2005 at 03:00AM View BBCode
Speaking of the Cardinals, how come no one's mentioned Game 6 of the 1985 World Series? I can't think of any call that was more pivotal to the Series outcome than Don Denkinger's blown call at first. Denkinger even later admitted that he blew the call. the Royals were champions because of a mistake.Other painful losses that haven't come up yet:
The 1912 World Series, game 8, when the Giants blundered away a World Series win.
Cleveland shortstop Ray Chapman becomes the only fatally hit batter in baseball history in 1920.
Also in 1920, a significant portion of the Chicago White Sox is indicted for actions allegedly taken the year before.
In the 1924 World Series, the Giants get victimized by the same damn pebble twice in Game 7.
In the 1926 World Series, it didn't help that Tony Lazzeri struck out with the bases loaded in Game 7, but Babe Ruth makes the final out by getting caught stealing.
Or how about the 1962 World Series, where Willie McCovey was so close to getting a hit and driving in a run, but lined out sharply to end Game 7 instead.
There's also the 1966 World Series, where the Dodgers really got pwned. They scored just two runs, and all of their scoring was done by the third inning of Game 1.
[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Dragon_Volant]
lvnwrth
Immediately after the blown call, Jack Clark drops a pop fly that should have been the first out of the inning. Jim Sundberg then forced Orta at third base in a failed sac. First and second, one out. Darrell Porter passed ball. Runners advance. First base open. Intentional walk to Hal McRae to load the bases. Single by Dane Iorg, Royals win 2-1.
If Clark catches the pop fly, Orta's at first with one out. Probably Howser sac's with Sundberg to move the tying run to 2b and stay out of the game-ending DP possibility. Orta at 2b, 2 out. If no Porter PB, there's no intentional walk. Worrell goes after McRae with 2 out, Orta at 2b. I'll take my chances with that match-up.
Denkinger clearly blew the call. The Cardinals should have won Game 6. But when the call didn't go their way, they got flustered. Then, convinced that they'd been robbed, they came out for Game 7 with an attitude and got embarrassed. Denkinger didn't have anything to do with that.
I'm a Cardinal fan all the way to the marrow, but they are as much to blame for letting that Series slip away as Denkinger is for blowing the call.
September 17, 2005 at 03:47AM View BBCode
In fairness to Denkinger, who clearly blew the call...Immediately after the blown call, Jack Clark drops a pop fly that should have been the first out of the inning. Jim Sundberg then forced Orta at third base in a failed sac. First and second, one out. Darrell Porter passed ball. Runners advance. First base open. Intentional walk to Hal McRae to load the bases. Single by Dane Iorg, Royals win 2-1.
If Clark catches the pop fly, Orta's at first with one out. Probably Howser sac's with Sundberg to move the tying run to 2b and stay out of the game-ending DP possibility. Orta at 2b, 2 out. If no Porter PB, there's no intentional walk. Worrell goes after McRae with 2 out, Orta at 2b. I'll take my chances with that match-up.
Denkinger clearly blew the call. The Cardinals should have won Game 6. But when the call didn't go their way, they got flustered. Then, convinced that they'd been robbed, they came out for Game 7 with an attitude and got embarrassed. Denkinger didn't have anything to do with that.
I'm a Cardinal fan all the way to the marrow, but they are as much to blame for letting that Series slip away as Denkinger is for blowing the call.
bobcat73
Moving into a town with a team in the same league helps but then your team lets go the best player on the team because he does not get along with the new best player on the team, Barry Bonds.
[Edited on 9-17-2005 by bobcat73]
September 17, 2005 at 05:20AM View BBCode
Originally posted by lvnwrth
How does one go about this business of "not being a fan of 'X' team anymore"? I've never understood that. Either you're a fan or you're not. It's kind of like your ethnicity or your gender. If you can change it, then it wasn't really you to begin with.
Moving into a town with a team in the same league helps but then your team lets go the best player on the team because he does not get along with the new best player on the team, Barry Bonds.
[Edited on 9-17-2005 by bobcat73]
Dragon_Volant
Then again, in the 1987 NLCS, Candy Maldonado was supposed to have screwed something up in the field for the Giants (I've seen that statement made here and there, but don't recall seeing anything), but fielding errors are the least of the teams problems when they can't score a run for two games. He didn't cause any problem for Toronto in '92.
D_V.
September 17, 2005 at 05:42AM View BBCode
Okay, point taken -- it's just that after 20 years, the missed call tends to stick in my mind more than any of the other stuff; it also tends to be mentioned more often than any of the other stuff. But the same thing will be happening years from now with regard to Steve Bartman.Then again, in the 1987 NLCS, Candy Maldonado was supposed to have screwed something up in the field for the Giants (I've seen that statement made here and there, but don't recall seeing anything), but fielding errors are the least of the teams problems when they can't score a run for two games. He didn't cause any problem for Toronto in '92.
D_V.
lvnwrth
I've lived near Atlanta, now Kansas City, and spend my summers equidistant between Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. My allegiance to the Cardinals has never wavered. So I don't understand the moving part.
As for letting go of their best player because he couldn't get along with Barry Bonds - Any jerk like that needs to be sent packing. Who could not love Barry Bonds? He's warm, affable, outgoing, selfless...everything you'd want a teammate to be. Don't take my word for it...just ask Curious George.
September 17, 2005 at 03:22PM View BBCode
Moving into a town with a team in the same league helps but then your team lets go the best player on the team because he does not get along with the new best player on the team, Barry Bonds.
[Edited on 9-17-2005 by bobcat73]
I've lived near Atlanta, now Kansas City, and spend my summers equidistant between Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. My allegiance to the Cardinals has never wavered. So I don't understand the moving part.
As for letting go of their best player because he couldn't get along with Barry Bonds - Any jerk like that needs to be sent packing. Who could not love Barry Bonds? He's warm, affable, outgoing, selfless...everything you'd want a teammate to be. Don't take my word for it...just ask Curious George.
FuriousGiorge
September 17, 2005 at 03:24PM View BBCode
Barry Bonds made a belt out of his victims' nipples.
bobcat73
The moving to Milwaukee give me a fun team to cheer for with much better at the park experance. Trust me I been to lots of games it's not even close the Brewers fans are great.
I guess the real reason I dont care for the Giants anymore is just Barry. Its as simple as that. I guess Dusty Baker was another big reason. I rode with him in the elevator inside the ball park and said hello in passing, not like "Dusty buddy wants up". I said hello then noticed it was Dusty. He looked right at me, looked me up and down, (inside a elevator, what 3ft apart) and did not even nod just walked off the elevator.
Story ends with- I got back to my meeting and told the Giants people about it they smiled and said "normally he's a very nice guy". Very much like like the hell would he say hello to you??
September 17, 2005 at 03:39PM View BBCode
Originally posted by lvnwrth
Moving into a town with a team in the same league helps but then your team lets go the best player on the team because he does not get along with the new best player on the team, Barry Bonds.
[Edited on 9-17-2005 by bobcat73]
I've lived near Atlanta, now Kansas City, and spend my summers equidistant between Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. My allegiance to the Cardinals has never wavered. So I don't understand the moving part.
As for letting go of their best player because he couldn't get along with Barry Bonds - Any jerk like that needs to be sent packing. Who could not love Barry Bonds? He's warm, affable, outgoing, selfless...everything you'd want a teammate to be. Don't take my word for it...just ask Curious George.
The moving to Milwaukee give me a fun team to cheer for with much better at the park experance. Trust me I been to lots of games it's not even close the Brewers fans are great.
I guess the real reason I dont care for the Giants anymore is just Barry. Its as simple as that. I guess Dusty Baker was another big reason. I rode with him in the elevator inside the ball park and said hello in passing, not like "Dusty buddy wants up". I said hello then noticed it was Dusty. He looked right at me, looked me up and down, (inside a elevator, what 3ft apart) and did not even nod just walked off the elevator.
Story ends with- I got back to my meeting and told the Giants people about it they smiled and said "normally he's a very nice guy". Very much like like the hell would he say hello to you??
lvnwrth
As for the ballpark and the fans, I guess I can't really relate to that piece of it. I've been to lots of ballparks and as far as the crowd goes, the best fans anywhere are St. Louis. They love the Cardinals, but they also love baseball. You make a great play in St. Louis, you get a standing O, and it doesn't matter what uniform you're wearing. They even do it for Cubs players, if you can imagine that.
Pitch a great game? Same thing. You get your props as you head to the dugout. Rookie gets his first ML hit in St. Louis? Same thing. The Cards are always first, but the St. Louis fans understand and appreciate the game better than any fans I've ever seen anywhere. I guess that's one of the reasons they're a mid-size market, but are always one of the top drawing teams in the majors.
As for ballparks, the best ballpark I've ever been in for watching a game is Royals Stadium (now Kauffman Stadium) in Kansas City. It is absolutely beautiful...even at 30 years old; and if there's a bad seat in the place, I haven't found it yet. And I've set everywhere in that park over the last 20 years, from upper deck down the RF foul line to four rows behind the visitors dugout. Watched Game 2, 1985 WS in LF GA. You can still sit in GA for less than the price of a first-run movie. It's the best entertainment value in town, unless you happen to be a die-hard Royals fan. Then I suspect it's just downright painful.
September 17, 2005 at 04:49PM View BBCode
Well, I can sort of understand turning on the Giants over the Barry Bonds issue, although this will puzzle CG no end.As for the ballpark and the fans, I guess I can't really relate to that piece of it. I've been to lots of ballparks and as far as the crowd goes, the best fans anywhere are St. Louis. They love the Cardinals, but they also love baseball. You make a great play in St. Louis, you get a standing O, and it doesn't matter what uniform you're wearing. They even do it for Cubs players, if you can imagine that.
Pitch a great game? Same thing. You get your props as you head to the dugout. Rookie gets his first ML hit in St. Louis? Same thing. The Cards are always first, but the St. Louis fans understand and appreciate the game better than any fans I've ever seen anywhere. I guess that's one of the reasons they're a mid-size market, but are always one of the top drawing teams in the majors.
As for ballparks, the best ballpark I've ever been in for watching a game is Royals Stadium (now Kauffman Stadium) in Kansas City. It is absolutely beautiful...even at 30 years old; and if there's a bad seat in the place, I haven't found it yet. And I've set everywhere in that park over the last 20 years, from upper deck down the RF foul line to four rows behind the visitors dugout. Watched Game 2, 1985 WS in LF GA. You can still sit in GA for less than the price of a first-run movie. It's the best entertainment value in town, unless you happen to be a die-hard Royals fan. Then I suspect it's just downright painful.
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