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celamantia
Down the foul lines: 305 - 380 ft.
To center: 400 - 480 ft.
Overall (sum of all 5 distances + heights): 1750 - 2000 ft.
(Limits in the power alleys are based on the individual stadium design.)
These dimensions were selected to encompass the deafult settings of the 36 stadium designs we are using. The official baseball rules say only that the minimum distance to any fence is 250 feet, but 320 feet down the foul lines and 400 feet to center is "preferable", with no mention of fence height. They go on to say that new stadiums constructed after 1958 must be a minimum of 325 feet down the foul lines and 400 feet to center.
My question is, from a Sim Dynasty point of view, are these default settings generous enough, or too generous? Would you lobby for different settings for leagues you play in? (If you are not on the Beta team and are reading this, please feel free to add your opinion.)
Thanks!
--Chris
December 30, 2009 at 10:33PM View BBCode
Does anyone have any opinions on the limitations on stadium construction? The limits are based on the distance to the fence plus the height of the fence, so a 290 foot fence that is 15 feet high meets the minimum of 305 feet. The limits can be adjusted by league, but the defaults are:Down the foul lines: 305 - 380 ft.
To center: 400 - 480 ft.
Overall (sum of all 5 distances + heights): 1750 - 2000 ft.
(Limits in the power alleys are based on the individual stadium design.)
These dimensions were selected to encompass the deafult settings of the 36 stadium designs we are using. The official baseball rules say only that the minimum distance to any fence is 250 feet, but 320 feet down the foul lines and 400 feet to center is "preferable", with no mention of fence height. They go on to say that new stadiums constructed after 1958 must be a minimum of 325 feet down the foul lines and 400 feet to center.
My question is, from a Sim Dynasty point of view, are these default settings generous enough, or too generous? Would you lobby for different settings for leagues you play in? (If you are not on the Beta team and are reading this, please feel free to add your opinion.)
Thanks!
--Chris
Shaheen
I think the ranges are pretty large and they may be a bit much but the testing will prove out if that is an issue. Since you calculate the power alleys distance, there shouldn't be any ballpark that is 380 down the line and shorter in the power alley. I don't know how ABE and the wall height will come into play but do you want people to be able to build a 480 with max wall height fields? I also don't know if you can get an inside the park HR with the sim and that might come into play now.
I would go with whatever is best for ABE to handle. People are going to like the option of configuring a ballpark as long as the settings do something.
December 30, 2009 at 10:47PM View BBCode
Originally posted by celamantia
Does anyone have any opinions on the limitations on stadium construction? The limits are based on the distance to the fence plus the height of the fence, so a 290 foot fence that is 15 feet high meets the minimum of 305 feet. The limits can be adjusted by league, but the defaults are:
Down the foul lines: 305 - 380 ft.
To center: 400 - 480 ft.
Overall (sum of all 5 distances + heights): 1750 - 2000 ft.
(Limits in the power alleys are based on the individual stadium design.)
These dimensions were selected to encompass the deafult settings of the 36 stadium designs we are using. The official baseball rules say only that the minimum distance to any fence is 250 feet, but 320 feet down the foul lines and 400 feet to center is "preferable", with no mention of fence height. They go on to say that new stadiums constructed after 1958 must be a minimum of 325 feet down the foul lines and 400 feet to center.
My question is, from a Sim Dynasty point of view, are these default settings generous enough, or too generous? Would you lobby for different settings for leagues you play in? (If you are not on the Beta team and are reading this, please feel free to add your opinion.)
Thanks!
--Chris
I think the ranges are pretty large and they may be a bit much but the testing will prove out if that is an issue. Since you calculate the power alleys distance, there shouldn't be any ballpark that is 380 down the line and shorter in the power alley. I don't know how ABE and the wall height will come into play but do you want people to be able to build a 480 with max wall height fields? I also don't know if you can get an inside the park HR with the sim and that might come into play now.
I would go with whatever is best for ABE to handle. People are going to like the option of configuring a ballpark as long as the settings do something.
Jughead
What is the minimum/maximum acceptable height for a fence, based on what the code allows? Perhaps a default height of 10 feet for all fences lets everyone focus on the benefits/bugs with where the fences are, and we can work on fence height at a later date?
December 30, 2009 at 10:49PM View BBCode
I would make 320 down the line and 400 to center with 10 foot fences the default because it reflects what is preferable.What is the minimum/maximum acceptable height for a fence, based on what the code allows? Perhaps a default height of 10 feet for all fences lets everyone focus on the benefits/bugs with where the fences are, and we can work on fence height at a later date?
Jughead
I was thinking about this, too. I can already tell you I am going to have my fences as far out as possible and as high as possible because I want to build a team based on pitching and defense, not power hitting. I don't want to be accused of having an unrealistic stadium if I use whatever maximum settings I am allowed.
December 30, 2009 at 10:52PM View BBCode
Originally posted by ShaheenI don't know how ABE and the wall height will come into play but do you want people to be able to build a 480 with max wall height fields? I also don't know if you can get an inside the park HR with the sim and that might come into play now.
I was thinking about this, too. I can already tell you I am going to have my fences as far out as possible and as high as possible because I want to build a team based on pitching and defense, not power hitting. I don't want to be accused of having an unrealistic stadium if I use whatever maximum settings I am allowed.
celamantia
The limits for fence heights are 75% to 150% of the default fence height, so with an 8 foot fence by default, the fence can be made 6 to 12 feet high. Some stadiums have one or more fences defined as Walls, sich as the Green Monster; the distance on Walls cannot be adjusted and they are limited to between 100% and 150% of their default height (i.e. a Wall cannot be made shorter than the default).
The limits for fence distances are 95% to 105% of the default, so a stadium with a 405 foot fence by default can be adjusted between 384 and 425 feet.
That 480 is a combination of distance and height, so you could have, say, a 470 foot fence with a 10 foot high wall, or a 460 foot fence with a 20 foot high wall. Note that your stadium design has to be large enough to bring these distances into range; only four of the available stadium designs are deep enough in center field to threaten the limit (Shibe, Comiskey, Briggs, and Forbes). Your biggest risk down the foul lines is Mile High Stadium, which is at the maximum limit down the right field line in its default configuration (370 feet with a 10 foot fence).
Note that you have to stay within an overall limit as well, so you can't push all the fences to their individual maximums.
That is correct. The power alleys move with the other fences. For simplicity, they split the difference between the changes in center and down their foul line. So if you move left field 10 feet deeper and don't move center, the left center power alley moves 5 feet deeper. If left goes out 10 feet and center comes in 10 feet the power alley doesn't move at all.
December 30, 2009 at 11:18PM View BBCode
The default stadium is Stadium 0, which is 335' down the foul lines and 405' to center with 8 foot fences all around.What is the minimum/maximum acceptable height for a fence, based on what the code allows?
The limits for fence heights are 75% to 150% of the default fence height, so with an 8 foot fence by default, the fence can be made 6 to 12 feet high. Some stadiums have one or more fences defined as Walls, sich as the Green Monster; the distance on Walls cannot be adjusted and they are limited to between 100% and 150% of their default height (i.e. a Wall cannot be made shorter than the default).
The limits for fence distances are 95% to 105% of the default, so a stadium with a 405 foot fence by default can be adjusted between 384 and 425 feet.
do you want people to be able to build a 480 with max wall height fields?
That 480 is a combination of distance and height, so you could have, say, a 470 foot fence with a 10 foot high wall, or a 460 foot fence with a 20 foot high wall. Note that your stadium design has to be large enough to bring these distances into range; only four of the available stadium designs are deep enough in center field to threaten the limit (Shibe, Comiskey, Briggs, and Forbes). Your biggest risk down the foul lines is Mile High Stadium, which is at the maximum limit down the right field line in its default configuration (370 feet with a 10 foot fence).
Note that you have to stay within an overall limit as well, so you can't push all the fences to their individual maximums.
Since you calculate the power alleys distance, there shouldn't be any ballpark that is 380 down the line and shorter in the power alley
That is correct. The power alleys move with the other fences. For simplicity, they split the difference between the changes in center and down their foul line. So if you move left field 10 feet deeper and don't move center, the left center power alley moves 5 feet deeper. If left goes out 10 feet and center comes in 10 feet the power alley doesn't move at all.
Hamilton2
December 30, 2009 at 11:44PM View BBCode
This is going to be so cool. Thanks for your hard work on it.
Jughead
(I also ask because this will be a frequently asked question, surely, and I'd like to be helpful and give an answer.)
December 30, 2009 at 11:57PM View BBCode
Is there somewhere I can go where I can see a list of all available stadiums, their respective dimensions, and an explanation of how they could be adjusted? I did not realize that changes to distance and height are relative to the way the stadiums are presented.(I also ask because this will be a frequently asked question, surely, and I'd like to be helpful and give an answer.)
celamantia
I said this wasn't possible, but I do have a correction: It actually can be done at Crosley Field because of the angle of the wall:
The default dimensions of Crosley already have the power alley closer to home than right field, with right field at 366 feet and right center at 360 feet. Note that this is compensated for by the fence height, which is 9 feet in right but 18 feet to right center. These distances are historically correct for 1958; see http://www.andrewclem.com/Baseball/CrosleyField.html .
When you click to select a new stadium, you will end up at http://beta.simdynasty.com/selectstadium.jsp which shows all of the stadiums and their default configuration. (You can see that page even if you are not logged in to Beta.) Selecting a stadium will then show you the configuration limits on the modification screen.
1 - A fence that is decribed as a "Wall" cannot be moved and can only be increased in height from its default.
2 - This shows the adjustment range for the fence height.
3 - A fence described as a "Fence" can be moved and can have its height raised or lowered from the default.
4 - This shows the adjustment range for fence distance.
5 - This shows the allowable range of the total sum of all five fence distances and heights.
6 - This shows your current total sum.
7 - Even if your fence is within the range for that stadium design, it has to comply with the league's minimums.
If you are not on the Beta team you can log in as betauser with a password of betauser and go to the Stadium page under the GM menu to check it out.
[Edited on 12-31-2009 by celamantia]
December 31, 2009 at 12:38AM View BBCode
Since you calculate the power alleys distance, there shouldn't be any ballpark that is 380 down the line and shorter in the power alley
I said this wasn't possible, but I do have a correction: It actually can be done at Crosley Field because of the angle of the wall:
The default dimensions of Crosley already have the power alley closer to home than right field, with right field at 366 feet and right center at 360 feet. Note that this is compensated for by the fence height, which is 9 feet in right but 18 feet to right center. These distances are historically correct for 1958; see http://www.andrewclem.com/Baseball/CrosleyField.html .
Is there somewhere I can go where I can see a list of all available stadiums, their respective dimensions, and an explanation of how they could be adjusted?
When you click to select a new stadium, you will end up at http://beta.simdynasty.com/selectstadium.jsp which shows all of the stadiums and their default configuration. (You can see that page even if you are not logged in to Beta.) Selecting a stadium will then show you the configuration limits on the modification screen.
1 - A fence that is decribed as a "Wall" cannot be moved and can only be increased in height from its default.
2 - This shows the adjustment range for the fence height.
3 - A fence described as a "Fence" can be moved and can have its height raised or lowered from the default.
4 - This shows the adjustment range for fence distance.
5 - This shows the allowable range of the total sum of all five fence distances and heights.
6 - This shows your current total sum.
7 - Even if your fence is within the range for that stadium design, it has to comply with the league's minimums.
If you are not on the Beta team you can log in as betauser with a password of betauser and go to the Stadium page under the GM menu to check it out.
[Edited on 12-31-2009 by celamantia]
celamantia
December 31, 2009 at 12:53AM View BBCode
It is also worth noting that the shape of the stadium will make a difference, not just those five wall distances. Although it will not be ready for the first iteration of stadium effects, we are testing some code that gives very precise results related to power, angle, air resistance and backspin, potentially taking into account even altitude adjustments. Here is a screenshot of a test of about 10 seasons worth of home-run distance hits to give you an idea. (Again, this code will not be in place for the first iteration, and hopefully I am not too far ahead of the curve in talking about it.)
celamantia
December 31, 2009 at 01:23AM View BBCode
And for those who have not seen it yet, this is what a stadium looks like in Dynasty Vision:celamantia has attached this image:
redcped
I had a couple of questions
1) About the dynasty vision. Will it show you relative wall or fence height?
2) You mention code that won't be in the first iteration. What specifically would and would not be included? I know Tyson hasn't written all the code for how the configurations affect game play yet, right?
December 31, 2009 at 06:52PM View BBCode
Chris, this is some amazing work you've done that will add so much to the game. I thank you for your efforts.I had a couple of questions
1) About the dynasty vision. Will it show you relative wall or fence height?
2) You mention code that won't be in the first iteration. What specifically would and would not be included? I know Tyson hasn't written all the code for how the configurations affect game play yet, right?
celamantia
Thank you! Research for this feature literally goes back years, I am glad to see it finally reaching fruition!
It does not show height; I just do not have a lot of room in there. CF is the problem. If I did, height would be below the distance like it is on the stadium selection page. Hm.
The code in the first iteration includes percentage difference changes for all types of hits based on stadium dimensions and surface, and is already operational. The code for the second iteration would include precise hit location for long hits, home run distance, and "hitting the wall" scenarios, along with tracking this data; this code is functional in test but not incorporated into the game yet. So in the first iteration, although home runs will be higher in a smaller stadium, you won't know which homers would not have been homers in a different stadium, whereas in the second iteration you would. We also have code to take city factors (altitude. temperature, etc.) into account (longer homers in Colorado, etc.) but we have not decided whether to use it, as the city an owner picked possibly just for the name would suddenly start making a difference in gameplay.
December 31, 2009 at 07:24PM View BBCode
Originally posted by redcped
Chris, this is some amazing work you've done that will add so much to the game. I thank you for your efforts.
Thank you! Research for this feature literally goes back years, I am glad to see it finally reaching fruition!
1) About the dynasty vision. Will it show you relative wall or fence height?
It does not show height; I just do not have a lot of room in there. CF is the problem. If I did, height would be below the distance like it is on the stadium selection page. Hm.
2) You mention code that won't be in the first iteration. What specifically would and would not be included? I know Tyson hasn't written all the code for how the configurations affect game play yet, right?
The code in the first iteration includes percentage difference changes for all types of hits based on stadium dimensions and surface, and is already operational. The code for the second iteration would include precise hit location for long hits, home run distance, and "hitting the wall" scenarios, along with tracking this data; this code is functional in test but not incorporated into the game yet. So in the first iteration, although home runs will be higher in a smaller stadium, you won't know which homers would not have been homers in a different stadium, whereas in the second iteration you would. We also have code to take city factors (altitude. temperature, etc.) into account (longer homers in Colorado, etc.) but we have not decided whether to use it, as the city an owner picked possibly just for the name would suddenly start making a difference in gameplay.
Jughead
December 31, 2009 at 07:42PM View BBCode
I feel strongly that the 16 teams be able to start on a level playing field. Otherwise you not only could move your fences out and in (and up and down), but you could also move the team to Colorado or Arizona for the same reason.
Jughead
December 31, 2009 at 07:48PM View BBCode
Can you tag all the different stadiums so people can search for stadium by size (or foul territory size)? Alternatively, can you give the option to show all the stadiums on one page. Another idea: Set up a table similar to the waiver wire, and people can then click to sort by distance down the rightfield line, straightaway center, amount of foul territory etc.
celamantia
I may do that for the second iteration; we're too close to release to start a new sortable page.
I can do a "Show all on one page" easily enough, though, and maybe a simple "order by size" for this version.
December 31, 2009 at 07:57PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Jughead
Can you tag all the different stadiums so people can search for stadium by size (or foul territory size)? Alternatively, can you give the option to show all the stadiums on one page. Another idea: Set up a table similar to the waiver wire, and people can then click to sort by distance down the rightfield line, straightaway center, amount of foul territory etc.
I may do that for the second iteration; we're too close to release to start a new sortable page.
I can do a "Show all on one page" easily enough, though, and maybe a simple "order by size" for this version.
celamantia
OK, I added an option to show all stadiums on one page, and some sorting options:
(I haven't included foul territory in the sort because I don't believe it makes a difference yet and when it does I will probably need to rearrange some internal data.)
December 31, 2009 at 09:31PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Jughead
Can you tag all the different stadiums so people can search for stadium by size (or foul territory size)? Alternatively, can you give the option to show all the stadiums on one page.
OK, I added an option to show all stadiums on one page, and some sorting options:
(I haven't included foul territory in the sort because I don't believe it makes a difference yet and when it does I will probably need to rearrange some internal data.)
Jughead
January 01, 2010 at 02:22AM View BBCode
Great. I hope a lot of people use this new feature besides me :)
celamantia
I've added height in... I don't think it looks as clean but it is important information so it is better to have it.
January 03, 2010 at 09:57PM View BBCode
Originally posted by redcped
1) About the dynasty vision. Will it show you relative wall or fence height?
I've added height in... I don't think it looks as clean but it is important information so it is better to have it.
hobos
January 05, 2010 at 06:18PM View BBCode
Any chance home/away splits will be implemented alongside this? It would be nice to have anyway, and could make testing somewhat simpler as we could make sure the park factors are roughly what one would expect. Otherwise we'd have pesky away statistics regressing the numbers for the extreme parks, and we would have to contend with the fact that not all offenses are the same (ie a great offense in a pitchers park and a bad offense in a hitters park could have roughly the same stats)
Hamilton2
January 05, 2010 at 11:59PM View BBCode
You can already see your home/away splits by looking at Games>Head to Head
hobos
January 06, 2010 at 06:50AM View BBCode
I meant batting and pitching splits, preferably on both a team and player level. Or are those available too and I just don't see them?
Jdredd73
January 06, 2010 at 01:52PM View BBCode
I'd like to suggest having some ability in the commish menu to restrict stadium changes, both in frequency and degree.
CaseyStengel
Lets say a AAA team builds a stadium in Kansas City, but moves to Boston in the Majors during the off season. Does the stadium remain in KC (AAA) or magically gets build in Boston (Majors)?
Realistically, a stadium would not move from city to city but remain where it was constructed by a new team.
Additionally, since each city has 4 teams (Maj, AAA, AA, A) there would be 4 different stadiums... a stadium for each division. Will a team moving to a different division in the SAME city (Pittsburgh AAA moves to Pittsburgh Majors) occupy the stadium they built as a AAA team or move to the stadium build for the Majors team?
Stadium construction in the OCL question:
January 06, 2010 at 02:19PM View BBCode
The OCL is a ladder league and each season some teams move from one division (Majors, AAA, AA, A) to another, often changing cities.Lets say a AAA team builds a stadium in Kansas City, but moves to Boston in the Majors during the off season. Does the stadium remain in KC (AAA) or magically gets build in Boston (Majors)?
Realistically, a stadium would not move from city to city but remain where it was constructed by a new team.
Additionally, since each city has 4 teams (Maj, AAA, AA, A) there would be 4 different stadiums... a stadium for each division. Will a team moving to a different division in the SAME city (Pittsburgh AAA moves to Pittsburgh Majors) occupy the stadium they built as a AAA team or move to the stadium build for the Majors team?
Admin
Seasons between fence adjustments
Seasons between stadium constructions
These 3 options are ranges:
Fence distance+height down baselines
Fence distance+height to center
Sum of all fence distances+heights
If you want something beyond that, you'll have to manage it outside the sim for now.
Tyson
January 06, 2010 at 03:53PM View BBCode
The stadium moves along with the team. If you change cities for whatever reason, the stadium should go along with you - it is connected to the team by teamID.I'd like to suggest having some ability in the commish menu to restrict stadium changes, both in frequency and degree.There are league options for the following:
Seasons between fence adjustments
Seasons between stadium constructions
These 3 options are ranges:
Fence distance+height down baselines
Fence distance+height to center
Sum of all fence distances+heights
If you want something beyond that, you'll have to manage it outside the sim for now.
Tyson
celamantia
The city changes are necessitated by the structure of the sim, not realism, so hopefully the fact that the stadiums move with the team will not be sen as unrealistic. If it is, I suggest setting the stadium build interval to 1 year for the OCL and putting a rule in place to require a new stadium build whenever a team is moved.
January 06, 2010 at 05:29PM View BBCode
Originally posted by CaseyStengel
The OCL is a ladder league and each season some teams move from one division (Majors, AAA, AA, A) to another, often changing cities.
The city changes are necessitated by the structure of the sim, not realism, so hopefully the fact that the stadiums move with the team will not be sen as unrealistic. If it is, I suggest setting the stadium build interval to 1 year for the OCL and putting a rule in place to require a new stadium build whenever a team is moved.