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folifan19
Reds trade Wily Mo!
March 20, 2006 at 09:19PM View BBCode
In a stunning move today, the Reds delt Wily Mo Pena to Boston, for the incomprable Bronson Arroyo, and 2 million bones. A brilliant move, trading a player that should blossom in to a fine power hitter, for another guy like Eric Milton! Just what the staff needs, ANOTHER barely average starting pitcher! This new genius GM must know something...
Bone-Scorpion
March 20, 2006 at 09:43PM View BBCode
He knows that he has a surplus of OF's and a crap rotation. U deal from strength to address ur weakness. Arroyo is also cheap so they really dont lose financial flexability.
ABDREW
March 20, 2006 at 11:12PM View BBCode
I'm excited about seeing Willie Mo Pena here. The guy is only 24 and has tremendous power. Sure he is still a raw talent in many ways but I think in the next year or 2 you could see him develop into a top pwer hitting OF'er
JollyGreenGiant
Great move by the Red Sox
March 21, 2006 at 01:48AM View BBCode
I expect him to be another David Ortiz like addition.. In a few years, a 3-4-5 of Ramirez-Ortiz-Pena is going to be damn scary, if Manny doesn't actually manage to get himself kicked out of town by then.Great move by the Red Sox
FuriousGiorge
March 21, 2006 at 02:40AM View BBCode
Ortiz actually gets on base, and always has. Pena's upside is probably Tony Batista.
ABDREW
March 21, 2006 at 03:23AM View BBCode
Pena already hits for the same Avg or better as Batista now at 24 and has similar power #'s, I think he'll be better than him. I don't see him ever hitting .300 but I would think he could easily settle in around the .275 range with 30-40 hr's a year
rkinslow19
March 21, 2006 at 03:34AM View BBCode
Pena is a botched prospect that was ruined by being rushed to the big leagues. On his career he has 54 walks to 288 strikeouts, and a .780 OPS. Have fun with that
FuriousGiorge
That sums it up in a nutshell right there. He's completely undisciplined at the plate, and those bad habits are going to be nearly impossible to fix. Tony Batista was a pretty damn productive player for a few years, don't dismiss getting a player who's like him. David Ortiz is way, way out of Pena's range.
March 21, 2006 at 03:44AM View BBCode
Originally posted by rkinslow19
On his career he has 54 walks to 288 strikeouts
That sums it up in a nutshell right there. He's completely undisciplined at the plate, and those bad habits are going to be nearly impossible to fix. Tony Batista was a pretty damn productive player for a few years, don't dismiss getting a player who's like him. David Ortiz is way, way out of Pena's range.
rkinslow19
March 21, 2006 at 03:49AM View BBCode
in terms of pure hitting, I think he's similair to soriano. a hacker with 35 homer pop. and that's at best
barterer2002
March 21, 2006 at 04:37AM View BBCode
Even so, I think the Red Sox got a good deal as I've never been enamoured with Arroyo.
rkinslow19
March 21, 2006 at 04:39AM View BBCode
Decent starting pitcher who only makes 2 mil a year....you could do worse
folifan19
I know the Reds are a .500 at best team, but it just seems there are so many iffy players on the team. Will Jr stay healthy, and performlike last season. Will Kearns stay healthy and finally have the FULL season he is supposed to be capable of. What about Lopez and Encarnacion. I think it's going to be another long season for Reds fans.
March 21, 2006 at 01:23PM View formatted
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After having time to think about this after the shock wore off, the deal seems a bit better than it appeared to me at first. Pena, if given the opportunity to play everyday, has the ability to wiff 200 times, and his defense is right there with Jose Canseco. And, the Reds do need better starters, and Arroyo IS better than everyone else on their staff, except Harang and maybe Claussen.
I know the Reds are a .500 at best team, but it just seems there are so many iffy players on the team. Will Jr stay healthy, and performlike last season. Will Kearns stay healthy and finally have the FULL season he is supposed to be capable of. What about Lopez and Encarnacion. I think it's going to be another long season for Reds fans.
sycophantman
He took a home-team discount when he signed his contract with the Red Sox last january, then they trade him, that is pretty classless...
March 21, 2006 at 01:31PM View BBCode
I know it's a business and all, and I have no rooting interest in either team really, but this deal is pretty crappy for Arroyo.He took a home-team discount when he signed his contract with the Red Sox last january, then they trade him, that is pretty classless...
ME
March 21, 2006 at 04:30PM View BBCode
Arroyo isn't that good, and is 28, while Pena has a lot of potential and the guy they are replacing him with in the lineup is Scott Hatteburg.
ABDREW
He makes just over 4 million. He just signed a 3 year 11.2 million dollar deal this offseason. Which by the way his agent told him not to take
March 21, 2006 at 10:49PM View BBCode
Originally posted by rkinslow19
Decent starting pitcher who only makes 2 mil a year....you could do worse
He makes just over 4 million. He just signed a 3 year 11.2 million dollar deal this offseason. Which by the way his agent told him not to take
FuriousGiorge
March 21, 2006 at 10:56PM View BBCode
Syco's right, that's a tremendously shitty thing to do to a player. He signs a hometown discount deal, then you use that favorable contract as a bargaining chip in trade. If he was signed for fair market value, would he have appealed to the Reds? I doubt it. If he rips Sox management in the press, I won't blame him.
John61983
http://www.courant.com/sports/baseball/hc-yankees0321.artmar21,0,2373343.story?coll=hc-headlines-baseball
March 21, 2006 at 11:20PM View BBCode
Actually Damon has fired the first salvo on the Arroyo deal. Its funny but I always thought Arroyo was a fan favorite in Boston especially after reading some of the stuff written on him in their team press book. Here's the site for Damon's thoughts on Boston management and the Arroyo deal...http://www.courant.com/sports/baseball/hc-yankees0321.artmar21,0,2373343.story?coll=hc-headlines-baseball
FuriousGiorge
March 21, 2006 at 11:30PM View BBCode
Of course he turns it back around to himself, because Johnny Damon is a gigantic narcissist. Hey Johnny - you got your money and you're a lousy investment no matter how much heart or moxie or spunk you might have, because you can be replaced by a player [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/crispco01.shtml]making a fraction of the money for 90-95% of your production[/url]
John61983
agreed, and while we're Johnny bashing his throw is an embarrassment to Major League Baseball. Also your forgetting [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sternad01.shtml]this guy. [/url] I think he's a gamer and flashed some of his skill in the WBC this year.
March 21, 2006 at 11:40PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Of course he turns it back around to himself, because Johnny Damon is a gigantic narcissist. Hey Johnny - you got your money and you're a lousy investment no matter how much heart or moxie or spunk you might have, because you can be replaced by a player [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/crispco01.shtml]making a fraction of the money for 90-95% of your production[/url]
agreed, and while we're Johnny bashing his throw is an embarrassment to Major League Baseball. Also your forgetting [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sternad01.shtml]this guy. [/url] I think he's a gamer and flashed some of his skill in the WBC this year.
ABDREW
March 22, 2006 at 01:26AM View BBCode
Stern has looked good at some points but also looked very bad at others. I'm not ready to call him a solid bigleaguer yet.
FuriousGiorge
You probably shouldn't spend a lot of time preparing to do so.
March 22, 2006 at 01:41AM View BBCode
Originally posted by ABDREW
I'm not ready to call him a solid bigleaguer yet.
You probably shouldn't spend a lot of time preparing to do so.
ABDREW
You're probably right. He looks to top out as a good 4th OF'er
March 22, 2006 at 03:02AM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Originally posted by ABDREW
I'm not ready to call him a solid bigleaguer yet.
You probably shouldn't spend a lot of time preparing to do so.
You're probably right. He looks to top out as a good 4th OF'er
lvnwrth
How many DH are they allowed to use? Ortiz already can't field enough to play a position regularly, and Ramirez is rapidly getting there. At 34, he's not going to improve.
I'd guess that Pena is the eventual replacement for one of these guys, not someone who's going to jump into that 3-4-5 slot you're hyped about.
As for Arroyo's contract and a "hometown discount", yep, that's pretty classless of the Red Sox. However, if you're Arroyo's agent and your client is signing for a "hometown discount", why don't you get a no-trade clause or a contract escalator, or something to protect him?
Five years ago Mike Sweeney left a huge pile of cash on the table to sign a long-term deal with the Royals. Of course, he immediately started getting hurt, but when he signed that contract, $11 million was pretty much a bargain price.
He got a limited no-trade clause - he can name a certain number of teams to which he'll accept a trade; and If he's traded, there's some kind of escalator in his contract. I think it goes to something like $13 million.
Shame on the Sox for taking advantage of a guy's loyalty. Shame on Arroyo's agent for not taking care of his client.
[Edited on 3-22-2006 by lvnwrth]
March 22, 2006 at 03:23AM View BBCode
Originally posted by JollyGreenGiant
I expect him to be another David Ortiz like addition.. In a few years, a 3-4-5 of Ramirez-Ortiz-Pena is going to be damn scary, if Manny doesn't actually manage to get himself kicked out of town by then.
Great move by the Red Sox
How many DH are they allowed to use? Ortiz already can't field enough to play a position regularly, and Ramirez is rapidly getting there. At 34, he's not going to improve.
I'd guess that Pena is the eventual replacement for one of these guys, not someone who's going to jump into that 3-4-5 slot you're hyped about.
As for Arroyo's contract and a "hometown discount", yep, that's pretty classless of the Red Sox. However, if you're Arroyo's agent and your client is signing for a "hometown discount", why don't you get a no-trade clause or a contract escalator, or something to protect him?
Five years ago Mike Sweeney left a huge pile of cash on the table to sign a long-term deal with the Royals. Of course, he immediately started getting hurt, but when he signed that contract, $11 million was pretty much a bargain price.
He got a limited no-trade clause - he can name a certain number of teams to which he'll accept a trade; and If he's traded, there's some kind of escalator in his contract. I think it goes to something like $13 million.
Shame on the Sox for taking advantage of a guy's loyalty. Shame on Arroyo's agent for not taking care of his client.
[Edited on 3-22-2006 by lvnwrth]
JollyGreenGiant
March 22, 2006 at 06:20AM View BBCode
Ramirez already plays awful defense. As long as he produces big offensive numbers, nobody will care now or a couple years down the road. Ortiz can stay at DH and Wily Mo can play RF or 1B if they so chose. There ya go, slick.
kujayhawks15
"I think this is great for the future of the Sox who continue to get younger while the Yankees keep getting older."
With Crisp instead of Damon, and now getting Wily Mo they might be trying to stay younger than the Yankees, so in 3-5 years they will be the best team in baseball. Pena has tons of potential as a .275 hitter with 30-40 HR's, but I would imagine that is the ceiling. He will probably average around a .250 AVG with about 30 HR's over the next 5 years, I just don't see him becoming a better contact hitter and more disciplined this quickly. Also, Nixon is an absolute monster against righthanders, while Pena can actually hit lefties for an average AND for power. If it is a platoon in right field with those two guys, it could be one of the best lineups in baseball.
From the Reds' point of view, they get an average starter that is cheap, and will keep them in games for something they have a surplus in. Now, even after they trade Casey, they have a solid OF with Dunn, Griffey Jr. and Kearns, and Hatteberg could suffice at 1B, but odds are they end up with a first basemen. Some names that have been mentioned are Ryan Shealy, Carlos Pena, Hee Sop Choi, Tony Clark and Calvin Pickering ([url=http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/03/speculation_cho.html]link[/url])
Lastly, this probably won't happen, but just to throw it up for debate, there was a rumored 4 team deal, here is how it would go down.
Trade #1:
Boston Gets Wily Mo Pena -- Cincinnati Gets Bronson Arroyo
Trade #2:
Boston Gets Alfonso Soriano -- Washington Gets Wily Mo Pena
Trade #3:
Boston Gets Lastings Milledge -- New York (NL) Gets Alfonso Soriano
They could possibly flip him for Soriano, and that could be an even deal according to rkinslow's comparison. Bowden has always loved Wily Mo Pena, one of his "5-Tool Players" that really only has 1 tool, but it is so good he still loves him. Even though it sounds pretty bad right now, the Nats would get a problem guy off their shoulders, and still get a 24 year old with a lot of promise, as most of you have said Wily Mo has. Just imagine: Boston would have ended up trading Bronson Arroyo for Alfonso Soriano...WOW! Welcome Theo back.
March 22, 2006 at 07:02AM View BBCode
Lots of interesting comments [url=http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/03/wily_mo_traded_.html]here[/url]. This quote really stuck with me:"I think this is great for the future of the Sox who continue to get younger while the Yankees keep getting older."
With Crisp instead of Damon, and now getting Wily Mo they might be trying to stay younger than the Yankees, so in 3-5 years they will be the best team in baseball. Pena has tons of potential as a .275 hitter with 30-40 HR's, but I would imagine that is the ceiling. He will probably average around a .250 AVG with about 30 HR's over the next 5 years, I just don't see him becoming a better contact hitter and more disciplined this quickly. Also, Nixon is an absolute monster against righthanders, while Pena can actually hit lefties for an average AND for power. If it is a platoon in right field with those two guys, it could be one of the best lineups in baseball.
From the Reds' point of view, they get an average starter that is cheap, and will keep them in games for something they have a surplus in. Now, even after they trade Casey, they have a solid OF with Dunn, Griffey Jr. and Kearns, and Hatteberg could suffice at 1B, but odds are they end up with a first basemen. Some names that have been mentioned are Ryan Shealy, Carlos Pena, Hee Sop Choi, Tony Clark and Calvin Pickering ([url=http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/03/speculation_cho.html]link[/url])
Lastly, this probably won't happen, but just to throw it up for debate, there was a rumored 4 team deal, here is how it would go down.
Trade #1:
Boston Gets Wily Mo Pena -- Cincinnati Gets Bronson Arroyo
Trade #2:
Boston Gets Alfonso Soriano -- Washington Gets Wily Mo Pena
Trade #3:
Boston Gets Lastings Milledge -- New York (NL) Gets Alfonso Soriano
They could possibly flip him for Soriano, and that could be an even deal according to rkinslow's comparison. Bowden has always loved Wily Mo Pena, one of his "5-Tool Players" that really only has 1 tool, but it is so good he still loves him. Even though it sounds pretty bad right now, the Nats would get a problem guy off their shoulders, and still get a 24 year old with a lot of promise, as most of you have said Wily Mo has. Just imagine: Boston would have ended up trading Bronson Arroyo for Alfonso Soriano...WOW! Welcome Theo back.
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