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Old Forum Index » Baseball League Forums » Dynasty Leagues » Billy Hamilton League » Answer from Jet to Meathead about several lopsided trades with hawkee
Sheikyerbouti
"I was courtious enough to try and stay out of this. But for some reason you want to drag me in.
This must be the trade your refering to:
http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=1455395
Davis, Rogers, and Rodriquez... 28, 28, and 29 at the time of the trade. All all-stars. In return I got Mercer, Baird, Carroll, and Maxie. As well as a 1st rounder. Which one was a slug prospect? Baird was a bench guy. But the other three are all-stars. Oh yeah... and the pick I got ended up being this guy: http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=1898850. I traded the pick before using it, but still. I'm thinking that was a great trade for me.
Personally, I think what you do with your trades with Hawkke is ridiculous and borderline cheating. Every single trade I've ever seen you make with him, going back to Melillo, has been lopsided in your favor. You use him as a feeder team and it's not fair to any of the other owners in your leagues. Countless owners have complained about it. One even got banned and quit the site because of one of your trades.
The problem is not so much the trades themselves, but the fact they are always with this one owner and never favor him. If you made a lot of lopsided trades with other owners, it wouldn't be such a big deal. But no one ever really complains about the trades you make with other owners. Just the ones with this owner. You would think you'd want to avoid the trouble and stop trading with this owner.
I'm not sure what his excuse is, maybe he gives you better trades because yours are the best offer. Maybe it's because you've paid for his renewals several times. He has said several times he refuses to negotiate trades, and simply wants to take the best offer out there without discussing it or countering. But knowing him personally this gives you an unfair advantage. You've stated that you discuss trades with him, offers from others and ones from you. You've also agreed that he does a poor job managing his minor league and developing his players. And you've said that he is impatient with both rebuilds and contending runs. I would think that as a friend/relative of him, you would take the time to try and help make him a better owner. But all you seem to do is use him.
Personally, I'm of the opinion you should never be allowed to trade with this owner again. Not just because of how the trades always seem to favor you. But because of the history behind it. Every trade will be scrutinized more closely and questioned by other owners. It's just asking for more trouble."
Answer from Jet to Meathead about several lopsided trades with hawkee
November 21, 2005 at 01:57PM View BBCode
I think everyone in this league must read this since we all want a fair, equal and competitive league. Everything begin with the last trade between the Meathead and the Knights but it looks like it begin before in others leagues...."I was courtious enough to try and stay out of this. But for some reason you want to drag me in.
This must be the trade your refering to:
http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=1455395
Davis, Rogers, and Rodriquez... 28, 28, and 29 at the time of the trade. All all-stars. In return I got Mercer, Baird, Carroll, and Maxie. As well as a 1st rounder. Which one was a slug prospect? Baird was a bench guy. But the other three are all-stars. Oh yeah... and the pick I got ended up being this guy: http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=1898850. I traded the pick before using it, but still. I'm thinking that was a great trade for me.
Personally, I think what you do with your trades with Hawkke is ridiculous and borderline cheating. Every single trade I've ever seen you make with him, going back to Melillo, has been lopsided in your favor. You use him as a feeder team and it's not fair to any of the other owners in your leagues. Countless owners have complained about it. One even got banned and quit the site because of one of your trades.
The problem is not so much the trades themselves, but the fact they are always with this one owner and never favor him. If you made a lot of lopsided trades with other owners, it wouldn't be such a big deal. But no one ever really complains about the trades you make with other owners. Just the ones with this owner. You would think you'd want to avoid the trouble and stop trading with this owner.
I'm not sure what his excuse is, maybe he gives you better trades because yours are the best offer. Maybe it's because you've paid for his renewals several times. He has said several times he refuses to negotiate trades, and simply wants to take the best offer out there without discussing it or countering. But knowing him personally this gives you an unfair advantage. You've stated that you discuss trades with him, offers from others and ones from you. You've also agreed that he does a poor job managing his minor league and developing his players. And you've said that he is impatient with both rebuilds and contending runs. I would think that as a friend/relative of him, you would take the time to try and help make him a better owner. But all you seem to do is use him.
Personally, I'm of the opinion you should never be allowed to trade with this owner again. Not just because of how the trades always seem to favor you. But because of the history behind it. Every trade will be scrutinized more closely and questioned by other owners. It's just asking for more trouble."
Meathead44
He also didn't stayout of it until now. I've been forwarded several u2u's that Jet sent out in replies to people wanting to know what the deal was. He filled them with the same inciteful innuendos, inaccuracies and lies. The only difference was that he was doing it behind our back where we couldn't defend ourselves. Jet's credibility and my respect for him have both evaporated.
Show me one trade other than the one we reversed that I even came close to ripping off Hawkke in this league? The only time he was ripped off was before he even took over the team, the former owner traded every young player with talent away for mediocre players in their late 20's.
The owner who quit and got banned that Jet wrote about was complaining about a trade Hawkke made with another owner. I had nothing to do with it.
These are 2 examples of exaggerating and flat out lying that lead to this kind of bullshit hysteria.
The fact is, many of the posts regarding this issue and the past are borderline criminal.
Sheik, you should watch what you disseminate as fact without knowing ANY of the facts for yourself.
[Edited on 11-21-2005 by Meathead44]
November 21, 2005 at 02:35PM View BBCode
Well, you just don't want to seem to get past this, do you? The trade has been reversed. Not because Tyson told us to or Jet told us too. Jet's post is filled with innacuracies and flat out lies. I'm not able to respond to it where he posted it though since he has decided to misuse his power as an admin and post in a locked thread.He also didn't stayout of it until now. I've been forwarded several u2u's that Jet sent out in replies to people wanting to know what the deal was. He filled them with the same inciteful innuendos, inaccuracies and lies. The only difference was that he was doing it behind our back where we couldn't defend ourselves. Jet's credibility and my respect for him have both evaporated.
Show me one trade other than the one we reversed that I even came close to ripping off Hawkke in this league? The only time he was ripped off was before he even took over the team, the former owner traded every young player with talent away for mediocre players in their late 20's.
The owner who quit and got banned that Jet wrote about was complaining about a trade Hawkke made with another owner. I had nothing to do with it.
These are 2 examples of exaggerating and flat out lying that lead to this kind of bullshit hysteria.
The fact is, many of the posts regarding this issue and the past are borderline criminal.
Sheik, you should watch what you disseminate as fact without knowing ANY of the facts for yourself.
[Edited on 11-21-2005 by Meathead44]
Sheikyerbouti
November 21, 2005 at 06:04PM View BBCode
I dont know Meat... If Tyson named Jet as an admin its probably because he was trusting him, I dont think he would have choose a "liar", a "criminal". For my part, I take out my offers for Johns because I dont want people think that I 'm making these for my own interest. Meat, why dont you just backoff and let Hawkke trade Johns to another team ? Things will be way way more simple and quiet then.
Jet
I think that goes somewhat towards Meatheads credibility on the issue. As he is not the only one whom Hawkke has made what are perceived to be lopsided trades with.
As for the rest of his comments... I'm baffled. Maybe he misunderstood some information he received, or was fed false information. I only show records of me commenting on the issue to Tyson and YAZ, and YAZ and I have a history of dealing with and discussing these trades. Because it's a constant thing that occurs between these two owners. Most of what I stated was personal opinion, so I'm not sure how that could be an inaccuracy.
Perhaps I should clarify better. It is my opinion that almost every, if not every single trade made between these two owners that I have seen between these two owners has greatly benefitted Meathead, and been to the determent of Hawkke. Several other owners have expressed to me similar opinions. Admittedly, I haven't looked at more than a couple trades in this league. But I have seen what I estimate to be nearly a dozen trades between these owners in other leagues. All of them lopsided.
And, I've never seen trades made by any other owner on the site questioned on such a continual basis. And the trades that are questioned always happen to be with the same owner. However, since I don't spend as much time in forums of leagues I'm not in, it's possible that there are other owners who get questioned more often. I think I would have remembered if there was another who came up frequently as it would likely be reported. But, it's also very likely that my personal involvement in leagues where these trades have been made has made them easier to remember.
If you'd like to point out specifics, I'm confident I can easily defend anything I've said here or in previous posts.
November 21, 2005 at 09:55PM View BBCode
Actually, in Matt's defense I was indeed incorrect about the banning situation. The trade involved Hawkke and another owner in the league, not Meathead. I recalled this incorrectedly when I posted that, and have since editted it out. I am very sorry for not researching this better.I think that goes somewhat towards Meatheads credibility on the issue. As he is not the only one whom Hawkke has made what are perceived to be lopsided trades with.
As for the rest of his comments... I'm baffled. Maybe he misunderstood some information he received, or was fed false information. I only show records of me commenting on the issue to Tyson and YAZ, and YAZ and I have a history of dealing with and discussing these trades. Because it's a constant thing that occurs between these two owners. Most of what I stated was personal opinion, so I'm not sure how that could be an inaccuracy.
Perhaps I should clarify better. It is my opinion that almost every, if not every single trade made between these two owners that I have seen between these two owners has greatly benefitted Meathead, and been to the determent of Hawkke. Several other owners have expressed to me similar opinions. Admittedly, I haven't looked at more than a couple trades in this league. But I have seen what I estimate to be nearly a dozen trades between these owners in other leagues. All of them lopsided.
And, I've never seen trades made by any other owner on the site questioned on such a continual basis. And the trades that are questioned always happen to be with the same owner. However, since I don't spend as much time in forums of leagues I'm not in, it's possible that there are other owners who get questioned more often. I think I would have remembered if there was another who came up frequently as it would likely be reported. But, it's also very likely that my personal involvement in leagues where these trades have been made has made them easier to remember.
If you'd like to point out specifics, I'm confident I can easily defend anything I've said here or in previous posts.
Jet
The only reason I got involved at all was because trades I had made were being used as an example to help defend this issue. And I felt compelled to defend that.
I think Meathead is a good owner. And I've always enjoyed playing against him. I think the issue is essentially closed. As long as these owners never make a trade again between each other, I'm happy.
November 21, 2005 at 10:01PM View BBCode
Just because I'm an admin does not mean I'm immune to mistakes and misjudgements. And I admit to having misrepresented the issue of the banned owner. Although I do not believe anything else that I have stated to be inaccurate. I appreciate your confidence, but I'd rather defend myself.The only reason I got involved at all was because trades I had made were being used as an example to help defend this issue. And I felt compelled to defend that.
I think Meathead is a good owner. And I've always enjoyed playing against him. I think the issue is essentially closed. As long as these owners never make a trade again between each other, I'm happy.
Originally posted by Sheikyerbouti
I dont know Meat... If Tyson named Jet as an admin its probably because he was trusting him, I dont think he would have choose a "liar", a "criminal". For my part, I take out my offers for Johns because I dont want people think that I 'm making these for my own interest. Meat, why dont you just backoff and let Hawkke trade Johns to another team ? Things will be way way more simple and quiet then.
Meathead44
By the way Sheik, your post is now the only post that contains the lie. I never said it was Jet's posts that were "criminal", but once again someone takes something out of context, posts it and it becomes bullshit. I sent Jet a personal u2u to call him on several of the things he said in the post. Appearantly, many of the people in this game are gutless liars. According to Jet, he didn't send out any info to other owners yet many of them were "quoting" him from private u2u's in their posts and u2u's to me. Quotes that, per Jet, never happened. That shows you the type of people that people are listening to.
I'll say this about 2 people in particular. Although I believe Stein should have come to me or Hawkke first with the issue and kept it out of the public, I do believe his only interest was the best interest of the league. Sheik seems to be fueled by something else at this point, with the gossip mongering, pettiness, and hypocrisy. :rolleyes:
This issue is closed for me, although my opinions of several people have changed.
November 21, 2005 at 10:06PM View formatted
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Is that why you are still harping on this? You're worried I'm going to get Johns? You are the only one not backing off here. Once you stopping chirping off on this, it will become more simple and quiet here.
By the way Sheik, your post is now the only post that contains the lie. I never said it was Jet's posts that were "criminal", but once again someone takes something out of context, posts it and it becomes bullshit. I sent Jet a personal u2u to call him on several of the things he said in the post. Appearantly, many of the people in this game are gutless liars. According to Jet, he didn't send out any info to other owners yet many of them were "quoting" him from private u2u's in their posts and u2u's to me. Quotes that, per Jet, never happened. That shows you the type of people that people are listening to.
I'll say this about 2 people in particular. Although I believe Stein should have come to me or Hawkke first with the issue and kept it out of the public, I do believe his only interest was the best interest of the league. Sheik seems to be fueled by something else at this point, with the gossip mongering, pettiness, and hypocrisy. :rolleyes:
This issue is closed for me, although my opinions of several people have changed.
Meathead44
By the way, Jet is not one who's credibility has changed in my eyes, just to be clear on that point. My post was started before Jet made his posts, so I wanted to be clear I wasn't responding to his post here.
November 21, 2005 at 10:11PM View BBCode
Damn slow typing....By the way, Jet is not one who's credibility has changed in my eyes, just to be clear on that point. My post was started before Jet made his posts, so I wanted to be clear I wasn't responding to his post here.
tysonlowery
For the record, it is very difficult to judge what is fair in one league vs. another. The market and going rate for different players is very tough to judge unless you are in the league and fielding offers and issuing offers. Some leagues value youth more than other leagues. The only reason I brought this one to Meathead/Hawkke's attention is that there was a slightly better offer on Hawkke's desk.
November 21, 2005 at 10:28PM View BBCode
Jet and Meathead have had their disagreements and problems going back to long before we made Jet an admin on the site. They both have strong feelings and emotions on this subject, which is why I tried to step in.For the record, it is very difficult to judge what is fair in one league vs. another. The market and going rate for different players is very tough to judge unless you are in the league and fielding offers and issuing offers. Some leagues value youth more than other leagues. The only reason I brought this one to Meathead/Hawkke's attention is that there was a slightly better offer on Hawkke's desk.
Sheikyerbouti
Love
Sheikyerbouti
November 22, 2005 at 12:13AM View BBCode
I also think Meathead is a good owner. One of the first post I sent here (in 1959) was to congrats Meat about the great job he did so far with his team and I still mean it. I just want things to be fair. "As long as these owners never make a trade again between each other" in the Billy Hamilton League, I'm happy me too.Love
Sheikyerbouti
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