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nuzzy62
Let's say you want to face the team's weaker line up for RHB so you use a RHP but use your settings to pull him after the first hit then bring in your lefty that you really want to use. You would have to then make sure the settings are such he will pitch for six or seven innings after that.
While trolling through the site, I saw one team's hitters were at a .310 clip on one side of the plate and .280 on the other and he had vastly different lineups.
Any thoughts?
Playoff pitching strategy
July 12, 2016 at 12:53PM View formatted
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Has anyone ever encountered a team that uses very different lineups for LHP and RHP and tried to get around it?
Let's say you want to face the team's weaker line up for RHB so you use a RHP but use your settings to pull him after the first hit then bring in your lefty that you really want to use. You would have to then make sure the settings are such he will pitch for six or seven innings after that.
While trolling through the site, I saw one team's hitters were at a .310 clip on one side of the plate and .280 on the other and he had vastly different lineups.
Any thoughts?
phen0m
It also can kill two birds with one stone, if you have a guy thats on 4 bars and can't start you can use this strat to basically have him start fully rested.
Its good to have a deep staff to do it though, as you dont wanna have to start a total scrub who gets blasted in the first inning. (they dont get pulled in the 1st until they give up a run so its possible they'll pitch til the bases are loaded and 1 runs already in)
July 12, 2016 at 02:45PM View BBCode
Yea i used that strategy for a few games this past world series in the FRL. Hard to tell if its making much of a difference or not with the extremely small sample sizes, but any little bit of edge helps i guess.It also can kill two birds with one stone, if you have a guy thats on 4 bars and can't start you can use this strat to basically have him start fully rested.
Its good to have a deep staff to do it though, as you dont wanna have to start a total scrub who gets blasted in the first inning. (they dont get pulled in the 1st until they give up a run so its possible they'll pitch til the bases are loaded and 1 runs already in)
ccox
July 12, 2016 at 02:51PM View BBCode
It's a great strategy. I used it against a team I faced like 4 times in a row in the playoffs and won all 4. His team was vastly different when suddenly facing a lefty and had a hard time scoring runs.
reddogs
July 12, 2016 at 02:53PM View BBCode
Seems like your making a mockery of the game when you use tricks and game loopholes to gain an advantage. But to each his own.
ccox
MLB managers could employ a similar strategy to some effect if they weren't so hung up on tradition and what others might think.
July 12, 2016 at 03:31PM View BBCode
Originally posted by reddogs
Seems like your making a mockery of the game when you use tricks and game loopholes to gain an advantage. But to each his own.
MLB managers could employ a similar strategy to some effect if they weren't so hung up on tradition and what others might think.
phen0m
You know the team you're facing can easily counter it right.
And like cox said MLB managers could do the same thing, and if they did start doing it, the opposing managers would start countering it as well.
July 12, 2016 at 03:58PM View BBCode
So strategy is making a mockery of the game now? kYou know the team you're facing can easily counter it right.
And like cox said MLB managers could do the same thing, and if they did start doing it, the opposing managers would start countering it as well.
dirtdevil
like pulling a starter in favour of a lefty reliever when a left-handed hitter is up in the crucial situation? or moving the 2B onto the SS side of the infield when facing a right-handed dead-pull hitter? like knowing what pitch is coming because the runner on second has stolen the signs? like deliberately throwing the ball into the other batter's box when you think the other team is stealing to give your catcher a better chance to throw him out? like bringing in a 98 mph fireballing reliever to follow the knuckleballer who started? like inserting the relief pitcher into the spot in the order of the LF who made the last out of the previous inning and putting a new hitter in LF in the pitcher's spot that's due to lead off? like calling up a lefty starting prospect to face a team stacked with lefthanded power hitters? like calling for a review that you know you will lose just to get the reliever in the bullpen time to fully warm up? like leaving the ball with the 1B after a play at first to trick the runner into leading off early and getting tagged out? like faking the double-play turn at second on a fly ball double in the world series to trick the runner into sliding and losing his opportunity to score?
like those tricks and loopholes make a mockery of the game?
July 12, 2016 at 04:50PM View BBCode
Originally posted by reddogs
Seems like your making a mockery of the game when you use tricks and game loopholes to gain an advantage. But to each his own.
like pulling a starter in favour of a lefty reliever when a left-handed hitter is up in the crucial situation? or moving the 2B onto the SS side of the infield when facing a right-handed dead-pull hitter? like knowing what pitch is coming because the runner on second has stolen the signs? like deliberately throwing the ball into the other batter's box when you think the other team is stealing to give your catcher a better chance to throw him out? like bringing in a 98 mph fireballing reliever to follow the knuckleballer who started? like inserting the relief pitcher into the spot in the order of the LF who made the last out of the previous inning and putting a new hitter in LF in the pitcher's spot that's due to lead off? like calling up a lefty starting prospect to face a team stacked with lefthanded power hitters? like calling for a review that you know you will lose just to get the reliever in the bullpen time to fully warm up? like leaving the ball with the 1B after a play at first to trick the runner into leading off early and getting tagged out? like faking the double-play turn at second on a fly ball double in the world series to trick the runner into sliding and losing his opportunity to score?
like those tricks and loopholes make a mockery of the game?
nuzzy62
Not at all. You're neutralizing or countering the other's team split lineup strategy.
Props to those who are already using it.
But it only works if there's a significant difference in both batting average LHP, RHP and the lineup uses different hitters.
July 12, 2016 at 04:51PM View BBCode
Originally posted by reddogs
Seems like your making a mockery of the game when you use tricks and game loopholes to gain an advantage. But to each his own.
Not at all. You're neutralizing or countering the other's team split lineup strategy.
Props to those who are already using it.
But it only works if there's a significant difference in both batting average LHP, RHP and the lineup uses different hitters.
WillyD
Yeah, be very careful of small sample sizes. Most of the time the sample size vs. LHP is so small as to be almost meaningless. Check out the quality of the LH starters in the league too. Sometimes there's a whole lot of mediocrity there. So go with the ratings of the hitters, and use the RH/LH stats to help guess if they're on the higher or lower side of those grades.
July 12, 2016 at 05:40PM View BBCode
Originally posted by nuzzy62
While trolling through the site, I saw one team's hitters were at a .310 clip on one side of the plate and .280 on the other and he had vastly different lineups.
Any thoughts?
Yeah, be very careful of small sample sizes. Most of the time the sample size vs. LHP is so small as to be almost meaningless. Check out the quality of the LH starters in the league too. Sometimes there's a whole lot of mediocrity there. So go with the ratings of the hitters, and use the RH/LH stats to help guess if they're on the higher or lower side of those grades.
reddogs
And yes, I am very much a traditionalist. So I guess my wording may have been a bit strong.
[Edited on 7-12-2016 by reddogs]
July 12, 2016 at 07:36PM View BBCode
If you could manage/counter in game, okay, but ABE doesn't allow you to set up lefty, righty bullpen moves. or shift infielders,or call semi pitchouts or double switches. If I can do so and I am missing it please tell me how. I am always willing to learn. (or try to learn, as I am not very bright). I do use platoon systems and match ups with a great deal of success and I see how this could be a form of that. But I would still feel like I had gum stuck to my shoe.And yes, I am very much a traditionalist. So I guess my wording may have been a bit strong.
[Edited on 7-12-2016 by reddogs]
nuzzy62
Those are good points.
July 12, 2016 at 10:07PM View BBCode
Originally posted by WillyD
Originally posted by nuzzy62
While trolling through the site, I saw one team's hitters were at a .310 clip on one side of the plate and .280 on the other and he had vastly different lineups.
Any thoughts?
Yeah, be very careful of small sample sizes. Most of the time the sample size vs. LHP is so small as to be almost meaningless. Check out the quality of the LH starters in the league too. Sometimes there's a whole lot of mediocrity there. So go with the ratings of the hitters, and use the RH/LH stats to help guess if they're on the higher or lower side of those grades.
Those are good points.
ccox
You can't make those moves in-game but you can adjust settings before each game if you want. I don't want to spend the time doing that, but if I make the post-season and have the time I will.
July 12, 2016 at 10:36PM View BBCode
Originally posted by reddogs
If you could manage/counter in game, okay, but ABE doesn't allow you to set up lefty, righty bullpen moves. or shift infielders,or call semi pitchouts or double switches. If I can do so and I am missing it please tell me how. I am always willing to learn. (or try to learn, as I am not very bright). I do use platoon systems and match ups with a great deal of success and I see how this could be a form of that. But I would still feel like I had gum stuck to my shoe.
And yes, I am very much a traditionalist. So I guess my wording may have been a bit strong.
[Edited on 7-12-2016 by reddogs]
You can't make those moves in-game but you can adjust settings before each game if you want. I don't want to spend the time doing that, but if I make the post-season and have the time I will.
reddogs
July 13, 2016 at 10:56PM View BBCode
My curiosity was peaked by all this, so I thought about how my settings could be used to counteract such subterfuge (LOL) And "click" the light went on. And as long as there is a counter move an owner can use if knowledgeable enough, I have no problem with the strategy. ;)
bahstonwedsawks
I've done this in nearly every playoff series I've played. I'll even consider it if a guy bats 3rd vs RHP and 8th vs LHP... just so later in the game he'll bat lower in the lineup and potentially have less hitters around him to drive him in or vice versa. You need to have a reliable pitcher that hopefully won't give up a run in that 1 inning he'll pitch... the strategy has backfired on me numerous times. It's a calculated gamble.
Even if the other owner adjusts his lineup to counter this move by moving the guy batting 8th to 3rd, then it's not his ideal lineup for at least his first at bat.
There's a bunch of things like this that might increase your odds of winning a particular game 1% or 2%. Find a handful of them and they'll add up to a noticeable advantage in a playoff series.
July 14, 2016 at 03:04AM View BBCode
Originally posted by nuzzy62
Has anyone ever encountered a team that uses very different lineups for LHP and RHP and tried to get around it?
Let's say you want to face the team's weaker line up for RHB so you use a RHP but use your settings to pull him after the first hit then bring in your lefty that you really want to use. You would have to then make sure the settings are such he will pitch for six or seven innings after that.
While trolling through the site, I saw one team's hitters were at a .310 clip on one side of the plate and .280 on the other and he had vastly different lineups.
Any thoughts?
I've done this in nearly every playoff series I've played. I'll even consider it if a guy bats 3rd vs RHP and 8th vs LHP... just so later in the game he'll bat lower in the lineup and potentially have less hitters around him to drive him in or vice versa. You need to have a reliable pitcher that hopefully won't give up a run in that 1 inning he'll pitch... the strategy has backfired on me numerous times. It's a calculated gamble.
Even if the other owner adjusts his lineup to counter this move by moving the guy batting 8th to 3rd, then it's not his ideal lineup for at least his first at bat.
There's a bunch of things like this that might increase your odds of winning a particular game 1% or 2%. Find a handful of them and they'll add up to a noticeable advantage in a playoff series.
ccox
I faced that owner in the playoffs a few times, waited just before the games started to work the strategy. He lost every series we played. Sure, those moves might not have single-handedly won those games for me, but they certainly tipped the scales.
July 14, 2016 at 04:26AM View BBCode
In one league, I set my lefty for a quick yank against an owner who had 2 studs vRHP (batting 3rd and 4th) but were kind of duds against lefties (batting 7th and 8th I think). The great thing was that each also had poor health, so occasionally the timing would work where one or both would have two energy bars when I'd start my southpaw, then they'd have to ride the bench tired the next game (when my RHP started and they could have done some damage).I faced that owner in the playoffs a few times, waited just before the games started to work the strategy. He lost every series we played. Sure, those moves might not have single-handedly won those games for me, but they certainly tipped the scales.
WillyD
July 14, 2016 at 07:34PM View BBCode
Some guy is tried this strategy vs. me today in the MML World Series. He got swept. He used it in 3 games, and it was an abortion all 3 time. The funny thing is that my lineup wasn't one that you would think to do anything out of the ordinary. Same 8 guys, only the 7/8 guys switch around in the order vs. lefties.Pages: 1