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geosfreddy

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Vote closed Continnuing IC series - DRILLS?

November 27, 2015 at 07:19AM View BBCode

<b>each of us has a routine and in this part of improvement talk we each have preferences-

here is mine at a glance---

Since most key improvements take place before the gezer age of 26

The 2 least drills I personally use are D and C drills and the obvious K.

On Qb's Rb's and Wr's I almost always go for F - footwork - I've noticed after 25 it's been an excersise in futility. That's where I start to D-drill heavily.

My centers - either D to get hands up to par or or W to beef up strength -
My G's and T's - I work on strength almost exclusevly and at 25 I d - drill them to try to get exe and att up. If they are already A+ it's D drilling all the way.

Also - started to look at how training for example a strong pass blocking guard as a RT to increase his Run block the results are still not deep enough to give any news but stay tuned on this. Or other options for example a cb as a wr if catching is a weak spot only.

Of course when I see a guy at 89% endurance pre game I C-drill him to get a 10% bump up and keep em in the game.

Who else uses the drills religiously and how?

I'll get to the D tomorrow.

Check out my IC page on drills to see the positive and regular results.

http://football.simdynasty.com/improvements.jsp?lid=830&teamid=17393&year=1989&type=Drills

Click on Position to see types of gains.


The pros of destroying and rebuilding ones roster. lol...



[Edited on 11-27-2015 by geosfreddy]

[Edited on 11-27-2015 by geosfreddy]

Aparicio

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November 27, 2015 at 05:54PM View BBCode

For Young QBs, I go D to hope to build up EXE, Throw Power/Accuracy.
Older QBs I go C usually.

I switch an Injured player to C until he heals.

Depending upon a Skill Position's positive attributes, I will go Speed or Agility.
If they're already pretty good at that, then I go D for EXE, Hands, Catch, Carry.

I NEVER go Agility for an OL, because it will detract from their Strength.

-AP

geosfreddy

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November 28, 2015 at 03:23PM View BBCode

Originally posted by Aparicio
For Young QBs, I go D to hope to build up EXE, Throw Power/Accuracy.
Older QBs I go C usually.

I switch an Injured player to C until he heals.

Depending upon a Skill Position's positive attributes, I will go Speed or Agility.
If they're already pretty good at that, then I go D for EXE, Hands, Catch, Carry.

I NEVER go Agility for an OL, because it will detract from their Strength.

-AP

Ok Ap you are talking DD he has the rare magic touch and knows the game a bit too well.

Just don't F drill or S drill line men... Why are your Ol guys Tug of war champions??? I am wondering if this Outright A+ across the board strength is the secret to your teams Samson Complex??? "Best team last 5 seasons" Now who will be the Delilah??????Eh still the one to Beat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMMUve9nd4E

Prideco

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November 29, 2015 at 12:09AM View BBCode

I have to admit I really don't understand the Drills and how to implement them to the best of the player's ability. I usually go All around until they get hurt then I put them on Conditioning

luminafire

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November 29, 2015 at 12:42AM View BBCode

Originally posted by Prideco
I have to admit I really don't understand the Drills and how to implement them to the best of the player's ability. I usually go All around until they get hurt then I put them on Conditioning

Worst thing you could do, you're wasting young players that way.

QBs: D drills. Lowers agr, increases hands, increases execution. Pretty much a career-long drill unless they're over thirty, then C drill them so they last.

RBs: F drills almost always but S drills if speed is low but agi is already okay. If both stats are outstanding and stamina is low, C drills. I've used D drills on really low executing RBs in the past but generally that is a bad idea because D drills lower aggression

WR: Pretty much always F drills, agi = dodged tackles. Speed is agi is okay, but agi is already red. Once speed is read I'd go right back to F drills even if their agi is A+. Agi = dodged tackles. Speed counts towards dodged tackles too an YAC in general, but agility is your bread and butter plus speed takes longer to develop and may not be a worthwhile use of time.

TE: Depends. If they're primarily there to catch the ball, treat them like a WR. You can str drill them if they're there for blocking but remember str hurts agility which equals YAC so I'd only str drill them if they have great blocking and their agi is too far gone (B or lower) to waste time trying to get that up. Doubly true for speed.

C: D drills pretty much for life because the main skills for centers are hands and execution. You want B+ strength or better, but I'd D drill them before I'd W drill them for strength, you want them to give the cleanest snaps possible (Hands) and be able to read the blitz thereby informing the rest of the line (execution). Blocking comes secondary, but it certainly helps if you can get the whole shabang. Pass block and run block are from position drills though.

All other Offensive Linemen: W drills for life unless their execution is really, really bad and/or aggression is really really high, then D drill them, but don't sacrifice strength for execution and aggression. Offensive linemen with high aggression = penalties and nothing really positive. If their execution is low they get blitzed easily.

All Defensive Linemen, Linebackers: W drills for life. I'd only deviate from this for D drills for execution if you're in a scenario like mine where your players have outstanding talent but they have miserable execution. Defensive players with low execution, no matter how great the rest of their skills are give up random big plays at the worst possible time. TRUST ME. That's my entire season right there.

Cornerbacks: F drills unless agility is pretty good, and again, you're like me and have two corners with bad execution. They're the primary pass cover guys, you don't want them to have inconsistent play (execution)

Safeties: F drills unless agility is solid, then S drills. Again, like most positions if they are pretty set in those areas and both have terrible execution, D drill them.

I'd have at least one player in each department (running backs, offensive linemen, WRs, defensive linemen, linebackers, cornerbacks, safeties) to have at least B- execution. Having entire departments of players with poor execution, no matter what their skillset is, will ruin them (again, see my defense this entire season). No playcalling can overcome poor execution.

Also remember if you play guys out otf position, they take a 75% execution penalty meaning there's never really a good reason to play someone out of position. At some point, no matter how great you coach or how skilled they are, they are going to give up a big play. I'd honestly only play a guy out of position on a semi-permanent basis if their execution is outstanding (A- or higher) and even then, they're not going to work out in the long haul. If the guy already had low execution AND is out of position? Yikes. If you have that ontop of an entire defense or offense that's not great executors? You're going to be screwed.

Hope that was helpful.

luminafire

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November 29, 2015 at 01:14AM View BBCode

Players develop best in college, then second best during the period they are drafted and age 25. They develop more with playing time, and more on the active roster than the active roster even if they aren't playing.

RBs decline first at age 25. All players start to decline at 27 and they decline exponentially after 30. So not developing them between drafting them and age 25 is a huge mistake. The only players I see develop well past 27 are QBs. Most QBs won't even peak until 30. Careful trading 28 year old QBs.

But generally that's why people trade players once they turn 27. Except for QBs that's their peak. Then you should focus more on execution if it's not a big problem otherwise except for QBs who should always get D drills

Don't F drill linebackers and defensive linemen because F drills lower strength. Whatever their agility is, you may as well live with it rather than damage their strength.

Generally, don't D drill RBs, D drills lower aggression and the more aggressive your RB the better. A+ aggr RB? You're in good company.

Again, careful F drilling offensive linemen, that will lower strength which is more important.

I like to D drill kickers for execution, but K drills are also fine. K drills for the punter.

All round drills are random, you are likely to develop points in skills you don't need (pass cover for a QB?) or lose points in skills you do (loosing agility on a CB because they randomly gained strength).

Again, I used to think execution and aggression was useless besides Quarterbacks and Kickers. It's not. Those random things you can't quite pin down? Sacks even though your offensive line looks great? Execution. Running back who looks great but has mediocre yard gains on average? Low aggression and/or low execution. Lot of penalties on the offensive line? Aggression.

Randomly giving up yards on defense even though your players look like studs? Execution. Defense playing okay but not crushing it even though their blocking and strength is great or agility or speed? Low aggression. Giving up massive pass yards even though your CB has A+ pass cover and great speed and agility? Execution.

Kicker missing a lot of FGs that look automatic or punters not quite working out as your primary kicker? Execution, and punters never work as kickers because of that 75% execution penalty.

QB seems to have a lot of random incompletions (not interceptions, but incompletions) even though he has a great arm? His aggr is too low (Below C) and he's too timid to throw into the softest coverage. Probably is throwing it out of bounds or purposefully out of the reach of anyone for fear of getting picked off. Or the coverage was just that good.

QB throwing too many picks even though everything else looks great? Aggression is too high (more than B+)

Getting a lot of interceptions "due to QB error" or "a poor throw"? Execution is too low. Pass too wide and short are the only ones pertaining to the arm. Wide is accuracy, short is power.

Getting interceptions but no "qb error", "poor throw", "wide", or "short" messages in the play? Your QB threw into coverage and the WR lost the war or it was a bad decision on the QBs part. If you're getting a lot of interceptions like this, that means they are way too aggressive.

Players with high execution (red letter) will randomly get very large bonuses to their stats on random plays (so my B- FB can get some decent yards on a lot of plays. He has no agility and no speed, he's only attempted twelve carries, but he's averaging five yards a carry.) just like players with low execution randomly lose massive points on their grades for their skills. Execution matters.

[Edited on 11-29-2015 by luminafire]

[Edited on 11-29-2015 by luminafire]

[Edited on 11-29-2015 by luminafire]

[Edited on 11-29-2015 by luminafire]

[Edited on 11-29-2015 by luminafire]

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[Edited on 11-29-2015 by luminafire]

[Edited on 11-29-2015 by luminafire]

geosfreddy

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November 29, 2015 at 01:30AM View BBCode

Safeties --- S drill = Pursuit ----- which is pretty important in cutting off.

luminafire

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November 29, 2015 at 02:06AM View BBCode

If you're under pressure a lot, but not off of blitzes, just a lot of plays with pressure and heavy pressure as soon as you drop back, the defensive is either outstanding, your something somewhere in your offensive line is not right. Could even be agility versus the agility of the defenders meaning they just juke'd your guard or tackle, but that's a tough one since you can't increase agility without risking loss of strength, so agility should be a large part in selecting your offensive linemen when you draft them because you're never going to be able to improve it that much without making them weaker. That could result in sacks.


Your goal is to have your guys have red letters in the right spots more or less. If the letter is B or lower when they're drafted unless they have a lot of developmental potential, chances are you're not going to be able to raise it more than a letter grade. When looking for players who can't start but are worth developing because they're weak in one or two skills, B+ is usually the bare minimum I will accept. When drafting and trying to find gems that'll develop well, I try to avoid players who are below red letter in multiple areas in places I need because it'll take several season to significantly raise a skill (i.e, if a linebacker is missing strength AND execution, I'm more likely to stay away because it's going to take a while to improve either in any way that is meaningful).

[Edited on 11-29-2015 by luminafire]

max_fischer

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November 29, 2015 at 02:27AM View BBCode

I find it important to give Conditioning drills to all players with C or worse Attitude. This gives an automatic 10% bump in Conditioning and can keep players available during long drives.

luminafire

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November 29, 2015 at 02:45AM View formatted

Good depth so you can sub in and out could help a long way in keeping players well conditioned so you don't have to waste an entire day's worth of C drills but I do do this if they're below 90% before a big game. ICs are like gold though, I'd spend every day developing them into skills that I can ESPECIALLY if they are young.

Prideco

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November 29, 2015 at 07:22PM View BBCode

And whats a day...real time or game time

geosfreddy

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November 29, 2015 at 07:58PM View BBCode

Originally posted by max_fischer
I find it important to give Conditioning drills to all players with C or worse Attitude. This gives an automatic 10% bump in Conditioning and can keep players available during long drives.

My point of view

1 - Only when you are having a player under mid high 80% conditioning at the end of the games and he is starter because the fatigue settings are not like before players still play well at 70-85%. But starting at low cond means quicker substitutions.

2 - If a young player is just not developing at all may as well keep him full.

3 - If you are a legitimate contender and a key game comes up go for full conditioning to get the edge. ********* "Or top play a younster his 15 minutes if tired to at least maximize his 3 position training chances"++++++

4 - Younger players who develop well should be maximized On skill needed or weakness improvement drilling till they hit the 25-26 mark. After that it's hard to up speed and other stuff that's easier when they first start.

A great example when I first started I had an arch nemesis in the EDFL -jbzomal who was a solid player-- every time his team was almost all at 100% and I was pummeled every game along with others. Low and behold after a few seasons my team got better and his improved but his young guys were missing let's say 4-10 possible drill improvements and the rest of us caught up and it was game over. See you can add strength speed hands exe pursuit and so on with a persistent D-regiment.

Day is a sim day when all games are completed including OT. Then the conditioning show on the far right of each player.





[Edited on 11-30-2015 by geosfreddy]

luminafire

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November 30, 2015 at 12:25AM View BBCode

Originally posted by Prideco
And whats a day...real time or game time

Game time. ICs from the previous day, if you've gained any, show up the following day at 7 when the first quarter runs. I am not 100% ( someone check this), but changing the drill at any point before 7 am when the first quarter runs will give you the same ICs as though you had changed the drill at 4 the prior day. Once the first quarter runs, you're officially working on the next day, the game engine tracks the playing time of your guys and then applies it to the drill through the filter of their potential and attitude.

You get more position drill ICs if your player has playing time, and they get more of an IC bonus the more they play up to fifteen minutes which is why you see Geo subbing out like crazy since all he's doing is training guys since he knows he doesn't have a roster to win. In my case, I have a solid roster that can win some games, so instead of subbing in and out the entire roster all day, I pick my battles.

For example: I have two QBs. Eric Elric is 32, Nolan Creed is 23. Elric, is the better longterm QB right now because his aggression is not super high (B+) so I want him to be the main QB but I don't want Creed to not get playing time. Therefore I play Nolan out of the I formation and Elric in all other formations which usually ends up being closer than not to fifteen minutes unless I get murdered in time of possession. When my running back got injured, since Creed has A carry and B+ in speed and agility, I played him as the RB which got him all of his playing time and then some. As much as people kind of are iffy about me picking Creed because of his aggression, by doing this, he's improved 22/47 ICs overall which is very, very good. If I hadn't played Creed at all, he'd have been lucky to have improved half that much.

So give the guys you think can develop at least fifteen minutes of playing time. Make sure to look over what you have skill drills and position drills set at after the fourth quarter and, if you're awake early enough, double check it before seven o'clock. Look at your player cards on the improvement tab on players you want to improve on a daily basis so you can see how many ICs they got that day as opposed to prior days (Creed improved 2 Ics in accuracy so far this year, but if I hadn't checked to see he got one of those last week and one this morning, I'd have no idea of knowing when they were received and what length of time it took to grow per point-- which is not a constant, Eric Elric would not develop accuracy for the longest time, then one year he gained ten ICs in Throw Accuracy in one season.)

If you check a player card throughout the season or several seasons and the IC tab is not really changing much, you may have a player who has difficulty developing. I used to have Saskatchewan's QB, Ron Wood, because I was hype about his A+ potential, but he just would not grow. It wasn't until his thirties he became a longterm starter and now he's 35, so holding onto him and hoping he'd develop would have been a huge waste of time. In that amount of time, I developed Eric Elric and it took a fourth of the time.

[Edited on 11-30-2015 by luminafire]

luminafire

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November 30, 2015 at 12:29AM View BBCode

Originally posted by geosfreddy

Originally posted by max_fischer
I find it important to give Conditioning drills to all players with C or worse Attitude. This gives an automatic 10% bump in Conditioning and can keep players available during long drives.

My point of view

A - Only when you are having a player under mid high 80% conditioning at the end of the games and he is starter because the fatigue settings are not like before players still play well at 70-85%. But starting at low cond means quicker substitutions.

B- If a young player is just not developing at all may as well keep him full.

C- If you are a legitimate contender and a key game comes up go for full conditioning to get the edge.

D - Younger players who develop well should be maximized On skill or weakness drilling till they hit the 25-26 mark. After that it's hard to up speed and other stuff that's easier when they first start.

A great example when I first started I had an arch nemesis in the EDFL -jbzomal who was a solid player-- every time his team was almost all at 100% and I was pummeled every game along with others. Low and behold after a few seasons my team got better and his improved but his young guys were missing let's say 4-10 possible drill improvements and the rest of us caught up and it was game over. See you can add strength speed hands exe pursuit and so on with a persistent D-regiment.

Day is a sim day when all games are completed including OT. Then the conditioning show on the far right of each player.

[Edited on 11-29-2015 by geosfreddy]

[Edited on 11-29-2015 by geosfreddy]

This. Also, remember, if your guy is at 80, 85% at the end of a game, conditioning may also not be necessary. Even though games are a day apart in real life, in-game every day is seven days and a lot of the time those guys will go back up to 90% conditioning by the next day meaning you could be wasting a day of drills on a guy, especially if he's young.

Generally, I only condition if, like Geo said, I'm a serious contender or there's a big game tomorrow and someone is at 75-80% so everyone is at their peak, or if it's an old player I am trying to improve health on in hopes of that player lasting another year, but it has rarely worked.

I also use it on injured players. Sometimes you'll get a guy that's injured for however many days, but at the end of that period, when they return from injury, their conditioning is at like 70% so I can't even play them. Using conditioning drills while they're injured, or at the least, the last day before they come back from injury usually keeps that from happening, but it's not a grantee

[Edited on 11-30-2015 by luminafire]

geosfreddy

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November 30, 2015 at 12:41AM View BBCode

In the end of all this I have to eliminate a minimum 12 players off my roster draft time. But getting low end guys to get to playing level as I am experiencing is a time consuming labor of hit and miss. Like watching My future featured Rb Kryptonyte convert at 67% and waiting to see thet Carry bumb a few more notches along with exe. Next 8 games Follow as he gets strictly D training to see the results.

luminafire

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November 30, 2015 at 01:00AM View BBCode

Another tip I've been using is to make sure if a player is injured and is not going to be back for the next game that I make him inactive and if he has no direct replacement, I still would switch out his roster spot for a young guy. Even if he gets no playing time he gets more ICs by just being active so a lot of old guys on your rosters you aren't using and kind of cringe when they get subbed in? Put them on the inactive list. Having a young guy in place of a waste of space on the active roster may not win the game, but it will help win the war long-term because not every guy on your roster is going to be a #1 pick. At some point, you're going to have to develop at least some players or else you'll have to take on waiver wire trash for depth or trade out draft picks or other players to shore up a position you could have had if you had spent 2-3 seasons training someone.

If a guy isn't developing for years and years (i.e., Ron Wood) and he isn't stellar already (i.e., Glenn Smith), sometimes you just have to give up and move on. If a player isn't significantly helping you win a game or he's not developing and you have him on the active roster, you are wasting space and loosing potential development for guys on your inactive list.

I cannot tell you how many tackles and guards I've raised from nothing into players who could start, could be depth guys, or were highly tradeable - and not necessarily by starting them, but because they sat on the active roster every day for several seasons. The past few seasons while I've been loosing, I've turned fourth and fifth round picks into a roster that almost looks like I had way more high picks than I did. QB, Rob Constantine, and my offensive linemen were really the only first round picks on my entire team. Everyone else came from the second round or lower-- my corners, who both look like first or second round picks, came from the third and the fifth rounds...

[Edited on 11-30-2015 by luminafire]

Prideco

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November 30, 2015 at 01:01AM View BBCode

Side Note
if anyone can not gain from this useful information, then you are not really playing

luminafire

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November 30, 2015 at 01:03AM View BBCode

I'd agree, if you're not at least trying to learn about ICs, you are doing yourself a great disservice and building your roster is going to be expensive and difficult. Playcalling and drafting is nice, but the real solid rosters come from developing players over several seasons. You cannot win the battle by just getting a bunch of first round picks. Even if you managed to compile an entire roster of high picks, it'll make your salary cap explode. Guys you develop, since they usually come from deeper in the draft class, tend to be cheaper longer. If it doesn't blow up your salary cap, you probably traded a bunch of draft picks to get your guys (like I have a bad habit of doing) and you will eventually pay for it by missing entire rounds or entire drafts depending on how bad your pick-chasing habit is.

Nowadays, I'm not trading a first, second or third round pick unless it's for a guy who is 21-24 who is good enough for me to have imagined drafting them at that round anyway.

[Edited on 11-30-2015 by luminafire]

geosfreddy

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December 01, 2015 at 12:02PM View BBCode

Cornerbacks: F drills unless agility is pretty good, and again, you're like me and have two corners with bad execution. They're the primary pass cover guys, you don't want them to have inconsistent play (execution)

Safeties: F drills unless agility is solid, then S drills. Again, like most positions if they are pretty set in those areas and both have terrible execution, D drill them.

Hope that was helpful.

I disagree here with lumina --- Just my approach

Maybe ok to F drill CB but a safety Needs pursuit as he is the LAST and final line of defence the need to cut down guys that broke free. If they are not strong in pursuit you are in trouble. F-Drill is almost exclusive My best teams have always relied more than anything on Safeties with the key A's in most spots but always with A's in pursuit. Where the S drill wastes on BT and jump it can help a CB in a needed attribute of Jump balling. But rarely do CB's get relied on in scoring off interceptions.

A solid result note position + Drill comparison.

http://football.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=3499437&displaytab=imps

[Edited on 12-1-2015 by geosfreddy]