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pecker247
Playoff Experience
September 07, 2015 at 06:19PM View BBCode
There's something to be said about players having playoff experience. You see it in the majors all of the time where teams will pick up pitchers or hitters with post season experience. This is actually a thing you know so why wouldn't sim players have "playoff experience" It could be calculated for how many games they play their performance etc. I am open to some suggestions on how to make this work, but when teams make it to the playoffs their players don't get to improve anymore even though they are playing more games and important games at at that. If a pitcher has extensive success in the post season I think that should be taken into an account. This would be a game changer as it would entice teams to trade for vets with post season experience. I would like to have a discussion on this and how we could incorporate this into the game. Players have mentor scores. What about playoff mentor scores. What about giving a player with experience an extra point or two in power or control or something.
MDorf
September 07, 2015 at 08:20PM View formatted
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It is an interesting idea, but I don't see it ever happening. Several years back, I submitted an idea on Ideascale that ICs should continue to accrue during the postseason, possibly even at a higher rate, but it didn't get much support. I still believe they should, both for some of the reasons you listed and it creates more decisions on who to play.
pecker247
September 07, 2015 at 09:43PM View BBCode
MDorf, the site has allowed pitchers to be better at home. I guess the question is since they can make a pitcher a little bit better at home then why couldn't they make a player be a little bit better in the playoffs? For example any batters with at least 50 at bats in the post season would get a 2 point bump in power or maybe in even power and contact. A pitcher would get a 2 point bump as well if they had say over 30 innings pitched or more than 10 appearances. Since its already possible and built into game code I am not sure why this couldn't be done. It would change the dynamic of the game a lot because think about this. Let's say there is an aging team that is ready to rebuild. If that team had a good playoff run those players now are more valuable than they once were. Also the 38 year old that may be B A- hitter may become valuable again for a team that wants to make some noise in the playoffs. There's something to be said about this and I know there is value with this.
dirtdevil
September 07, 2015 at 11:03PM View BBCode
I'll tell you what- if you can find some way to quantify what the real life impact of playoff experience on performance is, or even that it exists at all, then I'll help you figure out how to translate that to SD.
piper108
I agree with this. The playoffs will always inherently be a small sample size. Some players will do well, and some won't. To me, that's not a good reason to give every player with a certain amount of experience a boost.
It's an interesting idea, though. Earning ICs during the playoffs is also one to think about, although nothing from Ideascale seems to get developed these days.
September 08, 2015 at 02:34AM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
I'll tell you what- if you can find some way to quantify what the real life impact of playoff experience on performance is, or even that it exists at all, then I'll help you figure out how to translate that to SD.
I agree with this. The playoffs will always inherently be a small sample size. Some players will do well, and some won't. To me, that's not a good reason to give every player with a certain amount of experience a boost.
It's an interesting idea, though. Earning ICs during the playoffs is also one to think about, although nothing from Ideascale seems to get developed these days.
paulcaraccio
Agree with the vacuum that unless you can show evidence that playoff productivity increases with experience and isn't slowed by age, playoff experience shouldn't give players a boost.
And I also disagree that players should earn ICs during the playoffs. It wouldn't be fair to the other teams, unless they can send their players to Dominican summer league or something. We're only talking 4-6 ICs though, so not really a needle-mover either way.
September 08, 2015 at 06:31AM View BBCode
i think it's fun to talk about potential enhancements even though we'll probably never see any, but I would vote against this one.Agree with the vacuum that unless you can show evidence that playoff productivity increases with experience and isn't slowed by age, playoff experience shouldn't give players a boost.
And I also disagree that players should earn ICs during the playoffs. It wouldn't be fair to the other teams, unless they can send their players to Dominican summer league or something. We're only talking 4-6 ICs though, so not really a needle-mover either way.
tworoosters
If the other teams want the extra ICs all they have to do is make the playoffs, what could be more fair ?
September 08, 2015 at 02:08PM View BBCode
Originally posted by paulcaraccio
And I also disagree that players should earn ICs during the playoffs. It wouldn't be fair to the other teams,
If the other teams want the extra ICs all they have to do is make the playoffs, what could be more fair ?
paulcaraccio
September 08, 2015 at 02:55PM View BBCode
it would be more fair if...they got to send their players to Dominican summer league.
bahstonwedsawks
We could also add a "choke factor." Up until 2004 the entire Red Sox organization would be deducted about 10 points per skill come October.
One can dream...
September 08, 2015 at 03:01PM View BBCode
Somewhat off-topic, but I think a "clutch factor" would be very interesting. I know someone mentioned it before, and it would be impossible to quantify, but still fun to ponder the possibilities. Guys like Derek Jeter get a little boost come October. Heck, entire teams like the Giants get a boost if they make the playoffs :)We could also add a "choke factor." Up until 2004 the entire Red Sox organization would be deducted about 10 points per skill come October.
One can dream...
MDorf
September 08, 2015 at 03:58PM View BBCode
Originally posted by paulcaraccioWe certainly wouldn't want to be unfair to the tankers. If a team is playing games, the players should be earning ICs.
And I also disagree that players should earn ICs during the playoffs. It wouldn't be fair to the other teams, unless they can send their players to Dominican summer league or something. We're only talking 4-6 ICs though, so not really a needle-mover either way.
FishingCat
Clutch performers are talked about also, but they don't exist.
Knowing how to win is talked about, but it doesn't exist.
If they did exist someone would have found a way to quantify them, and you darn well know people have been trying for many, many years.
You can point out anecdotal evidence (such as the Giants) but is nothing more than a coincidence, the randomness off events, or someone would be able to prove otherwise. And we see the same thing in the SIM.
So to mirror what is being talked about is already reflected in the SIM. I can sight many examples if anyone wants me too.
September 10, 2015 at 02:19PM View BBCode
Playoff Experience helping teams win is something that is talked about in the media, but it doesn't exist. Thing is after a series is over no one goes back and examines their rhetoric about it.Clutch performers are talked about also, but they don't exist.
Knowing how to win is talked about, but it doesn't exist.
If they did exist someone would have found a way to quantify them, and you darn well know people have been trying for many, many years.
You can point out anecdotal evidence (such as the Giants) but is nothing more than a coincidence, the randomness off events, or someone would be able to prove otherwise. And we see the same thing in the SIM.
So to mirror what is being talked about is already reflected in the SIM. I can sight many examples if anyone wants me too.
dirtdevil
see, the thing is, they DO exist. it's just that they're statistically impossible to quantify, for a whole pile of reasons. there are absolutely guys who freak out in pressure situations and there are absolutely other guys who don't. the problem is, especially in baseball, the guy who's freaking out can still fluke his way into a bloop double or get bailed out by a great defensive play. someone can absolutely crush a ball and not get a hit or throw a 1-run complete game and lose. so sample size is hugely problematic. subjective things absolutely impact performance, but it's just not quantifiable. so I oppose their inclusion in a sim such as this on that basis.
saying that 'knowing how to win' or 'clutch performance' doesn't exist though, is just flat out wrong- subjectively.
September 10, 2015 at 06:56PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FishingCat
Playoff Experience helping teams win is something that is talked about in the media, but it doesn't exist. Thing is after a series is over no one goes back and examines their rhetoric about it.
Clutch performers are talked about also, but they don't exist.
Knowing how to win is talked about, but it doesn't exist.
If they did exist someone would have found a way to quantify them, and you darn well know people have been trying for many, many years.
You can point out anecdotal evidence (such as the Giants) but is nothing more than a coincidence, the randomness off events, or someone would be able to prove otherwise. And we see the same thing in the SIM.
So to mirror what is being talked about is already reflected in the SIM. I can sight many examples if anyone wants me too.
see, the thing is, they DO exist. it's just that they're statistically impossible to quantify, for a whole pile of reasons. there are absolutely guys who freak out in pressure situations and there are absolutely other guys who don't. the problem is, especially in baseball, the guy who's freaking out can still fluke his way into a bloop double or get bailed out by a great defensive play. someone can absolutely crush a ball and not get a hit or throw a 1-run complete game and lose. so sample size is hugely problematic. subjective things absolutely impact performance, but it's just not quantifiable. so I oppose their inclusion in a sim such as this on that basis.
saying that 'knowing how to win' or 'clutch performance' doesn't exist though, is just flat out wrong- subjectively.
dbass10
September 10, 2015 at 08:47PM View BBCode
If it is implemented, i think it should be more like a mentor score and not a boost. Some players play better in the post season and others play worse in the postseason.
LTJaeger
I do, however, favor the earning of CP's during the playoffs. First of all, there wouldn't be that many of them. Secondly, younger players often suffer with fewer games played on playoff teams because their owner is playing veterans and trying to win the pennant rather than tanking. Some very small compensation for that alone makes it worthy of consideration.
September 12, 2015 at 09:02AM View BBCode
I'd be against a playoff boost for experienced players, because I agree that there is little (if any) evidence that having been in the playoffs before make you better during them.I do, however, favor the earning of CP's during the playoffs. First of all, there wouldn't be that many of them. Secondly, younger players often suffer with fewer games played on playoff teams because their owner is playing veterans and trying to win the pennant rather than tanking. Some very small compensation for that alone makes it worthy of consideration.
LTJaeger
I do, however, favor the earning of CP's during the playoffs. First of all, there wouldn't be that many of them. Secondly, younger players often suffer with fewer games played on playoff teams because their owner is playing veterans and trying to win the pennant rather than tanking. Some very small compensation for that alone makes it worthy of consideration.
September 12, 2015 at 09:02AM View BBCode
I'd be against a playoff boost for experienced players, because I agree that there is little (if any) evidence that having been in the playoffs before make you better during them.I do, however, favor the earning of CP's during the playoffs. First of all, there wouldn't be that many of them. Secondly, younger players often suffer with fewer games played on playoff teams because their owner is playing veterans and trying to win the pennant rather than tanking. Some very small compensation for that alone makes it worthy of consideration.
Bonnie_Brae
The BWL solved tanking first in SD by implementing a random wheel draft system.
Playoff should absolutely generate ICs.
It drives me nuts when I lose my SS and the backup and have to stick some player there that is at 58% at SS, but doesn't get better over the course of a half dozen or so playoff games. They should improve some at the position, even if it is minimal.
[Edited on 10-4-2015 by Bonnie_Brae]
October 04, 2015 at 07:14AM View BBCode
Originally posted by MDorf
We certainly wouldn't want to be unfair to the tankers. If a team is playing games, the players should be earning ICs.
The BWL solved tanking first in SD by implementing a random wheel draft system.
Playoff should absolutely generate ICs.
It drives me nuts when I lose my SS and the backup and have to stick some player there that is at 58% at SS, but doesn't get better over the course of a half dozen or so playoff games. They should improve some at the position, even if it is minimal.
[Edited on 10-4-2015 by Bonnie_Brae]
SIRKERRETH
October 04, 2015 at 12:21PM View BBCode
You could always incorporate the two and give players a chance to earn improves that would only kick in during the play-offs. Just making it more complicated, I guess.Pages: 1