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Hamilton2
Change Playoff Format to 2-2-1-1-1
July 07, 2011 at 04:14PM View BBCode
In order to actually give home field advantage to the appropriate team. In a 2-3-2 format, all 5 game series favor the wildcard team and only a 7 game series favors the division winner.
tworoosters
July 07, 2011 at 04:21PM View BBCode
The problem is that MLB uses a 2-3-2 format, and has basically since the 1924 .
Hamilton2
Or maybe we can just have home field advantage bonuses turned off for all playoff game 5's? That would accomplish the same thing.
July 07, 2011 at 04:27PM View BBCode
I guess that I'm just sick of fielding questions about how an "inferior" team continues to upset the "superior" team in the playoffs. I know it is mostly the coin flips. I also know that the talent gap over 162 games will be more pronounced than in a 7-game series. But if we are going to have a home field advantage bonus to various skills, and one of the reasons for that bonus is the provide incentive for winning the division, then we ought to at least make it a real incentive and give the division winner the true advantage of home field.Or maybe we can just have home field advantage bonuses turned off for all playoff game 5's? That would accomplish the same thing.
dirtdevil
July 07, 2011 at 04:28PM View BBCode
the other thing, and i don't know if it's a problem or not, is off days. i can see both sides of the arguement here, but if 2-2-1-1-1 necessitates 4 off days (and i don't know if it does or not) instead of 2, then i'm not really interested.
Hamilton2
I think a better idea would be to retain the 2-3-2 format (for the connection with MLB and maintaining of travel days), and to simply turn off the home field bonus for any playoff game 5's. This would give the division winner the advantage in a 6 or 7 game series and all series that are 4 or 5 games would be neutral.
July 07, 2011 at 04:31PM View BBCode
It's a computer sim. The players don't need a "travel day" between sites. LOLI think a better idea would be to retain the 2-3-2 format (for the connection with MLB and maintaining of travel days), and to simply turn off the home field bonus for any playoff game 5's. This would give the division winner the advantage in a 6 or 7 game series and all series that are 4 or 5 games would be neutral.
paulcaraccio
I think HFA should be turned off for all World Series games. In the LCS, the team with the better record earned HFA by putting up a better record over 162 games against the same competition. In the WS, 2 teams are matched up and 1 is given HFA based on what happened against totally different competition.
July 07, 2011 at 05:24PM View formatted
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If the division winner loses in 5, they'd already surrendered HFA, they lost at home and couldn't win on the road. The point of HFA is that all you have to do is win at home, if you don't do that, you can't blame it on not having enough home games.
I think HFA should be turned off for all World Series games. In the LCS, the team with the better record earned HFA by putting up a better record over 162 games against the same competition. In the WS, 2 teams are matched up and 1 is given HFA based on what happened against totally different competition.
CaseyStengel
July 07, 2011 at 05:36PM View BBCode
Originally posted by paulcaraccio
If the division winner loses in 5, they'd already surrendered HFA, they lost at home and couldn't win on the road. The point of HFA is that all you have to do is win at home, if you don't do that, you can't blame it on not having enough home games. [color=red]Agreed![/color]
I think HFA should be turned off for all World Series games. [color=red]I do not agree! I am in favor of keeping the HFA during the World Series.[/color] In the LCS, the team with the better record earned HFA by putting up a better record over 162 games against the same competition. In the WS, 2 teams are matched up and 1 is given HFA based on what happened against totally different competition. [color=red]Instead of assigning the team with the best record the HFA, I suggest alternating years... odd years the AL gets HFA, even years the NL does![/color]
tworoosters
Never really thought about it before but this actually makes a lot of sense.
Paul you should put this on ideascale, it's a way better idea than the anti-unicorn one.
July 07, 2011 at 06:11PM View BBCode
Originally posted by paulcaraccio
I think HFA should be turned off for all World Series games. In the LCS, the team with the better record earned HFA by putting up a better record over 162 games against the same competition. In the WS, 2 teams are matched up and 1 is given HFA based on what happened against totally different competition.
Never really thought about it before but this actually makes a lot of sense.
Paul you should put this on ideascale, it's a way better idea than the anti-unicorn one.
dirtdevil
July 07, 2011 at 07:48PM View BBCode
the teams in the WS are still playing home games though. i recognize the inequity paul is (rightly, i think) trying to eliminate, but i think the alternating years idea is a better one.
tm4559
(heres a freaking idea. stop adding points to damn code bits and play it freaking straight.)
[Edited on 7-7-2011 by tm4559]
July 07, 2011 at 08:14PM View BBCode
the division winner has the home field advantage. you get two games with all those freaking points added on to your hitters and pitchers, it make the two best pitchers (probably) into supermen that no team can beat, then your dopey best team just has to win one game on the road and take it back home and do it again with all those points.(heres a freaking idea. stop adding points to damn code bits and play it freaking straight.)
[Edited on 7-7-2011 by tm4559]
tm4559
July 07, 2011 at 08:26PM View BBCode
(i am not a fan of the point adding obviously, in the regular season or the playoffs. perhaps we should also play a mid-season all star game for the HFA in the world series to make this thing equally as dumb as real baseball.)
Hamilton2
4 games: no one, they play 2 and 2.
5 games: the wildcard plays 3 at home vs. 2 for the division winner
6 games: no one, they play 3 and 3.
7 games: the division winner plays 4 at home vs. 3 for the wildcard.
The only scenario in which the division winner gets home field advantage is if the series goes 7 games. In all other circumstances the wildcard team either has an advantage (5 game series) or it is a draw (4 or 6 game series).
Just because the one team gets the two games at home first does not mean that it is getting home field advantage, because we are artificially adding points to skills based on who is at home.
July 07, 2011 at 08:29PM View BBCode
The minimum number of games for any series is 4. Here is a break down of who gets homefield advantage based on series length:4 games: no one, they play 2 and 2.
5 games: the wildcard plays 3 at home vs. 2 for the division winner
6 games: no one, they play 3 and 3.
7 games: the division winner plays 4 at home vs. 3 for the wildcard.
The only scenario in which the division winner gets home field advantage is if the series goes 7 games. In all other circumstances the wildcard team either has an advantage (5 game series) or it is a draw (4 or 6 game series).
Just because the one team gets the two games at home first does not mean that it is getting home field advantage, because we are artificially adding points to skills based on who is at home.
tm4559
July 07, 2011 at 08:39PM View BBCode
yes, i have seen this analysis before. i don't really care. i just wish they would stop adding dopey points to the home team.
redcped
July 07, 2011 at 08:40PM View BBCode
Well stated, Hamilton. Despite what some baseball people have said over the years, it doesn't actually matter which games you win, only that you win 4 of them.
Hamilton2
That is really an entirely separate issue. I don't care one way or the other, really. The situation we now have is such that it does add the dopey points. Given the way things currently are, it benefits the wildcard team; not the division winner. I don't think that that is the intention and I would like to see it fixed. (It would of course be fixed by simply not adding the dopey points, but again, that's a different issue.)
July 07, 2011 at 08:56PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tm4559
yes, i have seen this analysis before. i don't really care. i just wish they would stop adding dopey points to the home team.
That is really an entirely separate issue. I don't care one way or the other, really. The situation we now have is such that it does add the dopey points. Given the way things currently are, it benefits the wildcard team; not the division winner. I don't think that that is the intention and I would like to see it fixed. (It would of course be fixed by simply not adding the dopey points, but again, that's a different issue.)
tm4559
you put this there. if the wild card wins in four, it didn't have an advantage. if it wins in five, it had an advantage. nobody has the advantage if it goes 6. so the wild card gets the advantate if it wins in five and the division winner if it wins in seven. so, that is equal. not an advantage to the wild card, right? what am i missing?
[Edited on 7-7-2011 by tm4559]
July 07, 2011 at 09:16PM View BBCode
The only scenario in which the division winner gets home field advantage is if the series goes 7 games. In all other circumstances the wildcard team either has an advantage (5 game series) or it is a draw (4 or 6 game series).you put this there. if the wild card wins in four, it didn't have an advantage. if it wins in five, it had an advantage. nobody has the advantage if it goes 6. so the wild card gets the advantate if it wins in five and the division winner if it wins in seven. so, that is equal. not an advantage to the wild card, right? what am i missing?
[Edited on 7-7-2011 by tm4559]
Penguin
I think what he's saying is that it shouldn't be equal, you should have an overall advantage in the series if you won the division
July 07, 2011 at 09:34PM View BBCode
so, that is equal. not an advantage to the wild card, right? what am i missing?
[Edited on 7-7-2011 by tm4559]
I think what he's saying is that it shouldn't be equal, you should have an overall advantage in the series if you won the division
tm4559
[size=64]ADDING ON POINTS IS DOPEY AND STUPID AND NOT FAIR.[/size]
July 07, 2011 at 09:48PM View BBCode
it isn't equal though if it goes seven. thats the advantage. if the wildcard can take a game off the division winner, at their park, with the points added on to their pitchers and hitters, then it has the advantage. as it should, its earned it, if it can do that, because[size=64]ADDING ON POINTS IS DOPEY AND STUPID AND NOT FAIR.[/size]
dirtdevil
what he's saying is that since the majority of series don't go 7 games, the division winner is less likely to have home field advantage (in terms of games actually played) than is the wildcard team. the 2-2-1-1-1 scenario would fix that. roosters point about the mlb format is also a valid one.
July 07, 2011 at 09:52PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Penguin
so, that is equal. not an advantage to the wild card, right? what am i missing?
[Edited on 7-7-2011 by tm4559]
I think what he's saying is that it shouldn't be equal, you should have an overall advantage in the series if you won the division
what he's saying is that since the majority of series don't go 7 games, the division winner is less likely to have home field advantage (in terms of games actually played) than is the wildcard team. the 2-2-1-1-1 scenario would fix that. roosters point about the mlb format is also a valid one.
paulcaraccio
im on a "putting stuff on ideascale" strike until they start using that stuff again. Been a while since they implemented any changes from there. (I know they're working on other things, like football, and have been working hard on the stretching thing)
The division winner always gets HFA, no matter how long the series goes, all they have to do is win at home. The only way the wild card gets HFA is by seizing it via winning on the road. If people complain about the allotment of home games in a series they lost 4-1, they need to look a little deeper into what went wrong.
July 07, 2011 at 10:01PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tworoosters
Paul you should put this on ideascale, it's a way better idea than the anti-unicorn one.
im on a "putting stuff on ideascale" strike until they start using that stuff again. Been a while since they implemented any changes from there. (I know they're working on other things, like football, and have been working hard on the stretching thing)
The division winner always gets HFA, no matter how long the series goes, all they have to do is win at home. The only way the wild card gets HFA is by seizing it via winning on the road. If people complain about the allotment of home games in a series they lost 4-1, they need to look a little deeper into what went wrong.
tm4559
in the simulation, the wild card games it. if you're smart, you line your pitcher up 1, 4, 2, 3, 1. your three best pitchers go at home, with the points added on. you hope the flips give you one of those first games. this is stupid too, but i arises from adding points in the first place. adding on points is a thing that ought to stop. if not in the regular season, at least in the playoffs.
July 07, 2011 at 10:01PM View BBCode
i know that. i know what he is saying. but in real baseball, they don't game it, because, nobody has extra oomph added to their skills. you are what you are. they get gloomy and doomy when the home team loses one of those games at home. because they lost the advantage. because they lost at home.in the simulation, the wild card games it. if you're smart, you line your pitcher up 1, 4, 2, 3, 1. your three best pitchers go at home, with the points added on. you hope the flips give you one of those first games. this is stupid too, but i arises from adding points in the first place. adding on points is a thing that ought to stop. if not in the regular season, at least in the playoffs.
tm4559
[Edited on 7-7-2011 by tm4559]
July 07, 2011 at 10:06PM View BBCode
(these aren't real players, they're code bits. the team that finished first probably had a bigger run differential than the team that finished second, because it is a better team. 162 flip fests don't lie. the points added on to the wild card team for its three games merely close the gap a little. the points added on to the best team for the first two games and the last two games are simply too much of an advantage. they are. it is too much.)[Edited on 7-7-2011 by tm4559]
Hamilton2
4 game series: 12.5% likely that a sweep will happen. It is flipping a coin and getting 4 straight heads or 4 straight tails.
5 games series: 25% chance of a series lasting this long.
6 games: 31.25% chance.
7 games: 31.25% chance.
This is based on mathematical probability for a 50/50 coin flip. The numbers even add up to 100%.
So, the division winner actually DOES have homefield advantage, by 6.25% over the wildcard winner. My bad.
July 07, 2011 at 10:33PM View BBCode
So ... I just worked out some math, for fun, to see where I was statistically on my premise that most series do not go 7 games. Here is what I found:4 game series: 12.5% likely that a sweep will happen. It is flipping a coin and getting 4 straight heads or 4 straight tails.
5 games series: 25% chance of a series lasting this long.
6 games: 31.25% chance.
7 games: 31.25% chance.
This is based on mathematical probability for a 50/50 coin flip. The numbers even add up to 100%.
So, the division winner actually DOES have homefield advantage, by 6.25% over the wildcard winner. My bad.
redcped
July 07, 2011 at 10:59PM View BBCode
Out of curiosity, does anyone know what percentage of playoff games in SD are won by home teams?Pages: 1 2