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dsaved
Screen passes!!
February 20, 2011 at 05:54PM View BBCode
Cincinnati is killing me in the first half throwing almost exclusively screens, he's thronw 82%, which is amazing in its own right, but what's incredible is that linemen and linebackers get burned EVERY time for additional gain! An incredibly productive strategy, let's see what I can do before the start of the second half...
dsaved
February 20, 2011 at 06:16PM View formatted
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still being killed, what on earth is the best defense against screen passes?
phen0m
no idea, my guess would be shallow zone?
February 20, 2011 at 06:42PM View BBCode
Originally posted by dsaved
still being killed, what on earth is the best defense against screen passes?
no idea, my guess would be shallow zone?
Bowerz101
As for a way to defend it....try nickel.
February 20, 2011 at 08:05PM View BBCode
Its a strategy that I've used for the last 3 games. If you have pressure on your QB every play, the screen is extremely effective. However, if you have a good pass protecting line, the rush wont get as far up field and thus makes the screen less effective.As for a way to defend it....try nickel.
dsaved
February 20, 2011 at 08:55PM View BBCode
I got average defenders on the line, but it's crazy, I mean they're ALWAYS "WR x breaks a tackle by DE y"... as for nickel, how do you set that? It's not on the menus in the defense coaching tab.
Bowerz101
February 20, 2011 at 09:39PM View BBCode
Nickel is 4-2-5. Logic being the more people in the secondary, more people in front of him when he catches the pass. I havent really been stopped throwing screens because my line sucks and lets everyone up field. Nickel did the best against it though.
dsaved
I tried different approaches, shallow zone, man to man, balanced run, oustide run, nothing, I mean nothing worked at all. At times the guy got completion and break tackle 4-5 times in a row. I may not have monster pass defenders on the line or at OLB, but nothing dreadful either. And it's not like their targets were world beaters.
The funny thing is I only lost for a TD, and had a chance later in the game. But wether he was keeping the ball to save his defense, or simply try a strategy for the sake of it, it was a brilliantly coached game.
Still have no clue how to defend against screen offense.
February 20, 2011 at 09:43PM View BBCode
Boy, that was insane. The guyt threw 24 screens out of 31 passes, the "normal" ones being in the 2-minute or red zones. 24 passes, 23 completions! Of 23 completions 16 included a "break tackle" or "dodge tackle" situation! This, completed with a run here and a run there controlled the clock efficiently and grinded my defence.I tried different approaches, shallow zone, man to man, balanced run, oustide run, nothing, I mean nothing worked at all. At times the guy got completion and break tackle 4-5 times in a row. I may not have monster pass defenders on the line or at OLB, but nothing dreadful either. And it's not like their targets were world beaters.
The funny thing is I only lost for a TD, and had a chance later in the game. But wether he was keeping the ball to save his defense, or simply try a strategy for the sake of it, it was a brilliantly coached game.
Still have no clue how to defend against screen offense.
redcped
My suspicion is that all these broken tackles might be a reflection of his ability to catch the ball near or behind the line of scrimmage, then head upfield a bit before he meets a defender.
I am wondering whether having DE who defend passing well makes an impact. I would expect that and the tackling/pursuing ability of the OLB to have the most effect on stopping screens.
February 20, 2011 at 10:17PM View BBCode
The thing about screen passes is that they are supposed to be very high percentage throws, and it is very rare for the receiver to be stopped when he catches it because he usually is getting it in space.My suspicion is that all these broken tackles might be a reflection of his ability to catch the ball near or behind the line of scrimmage, then head upfield a bit before he meets a defender.
I am wondering whether having DE who defend passing well makes an impact. I would expect that and the tackling/pursuing ability of the OLB to have the most effect on stopping screens.
dsaved
All the same, whatever the abilities, I think that 16 break tackles/dodge tackles in a single game, by a WR or RB (not FB), against B+ overall DEs, are a bit over the top.
[Edited on 2-20-2011 by dsaved]
February 20, 2011 at 10:52PM View BBCode
All the broken tackles/dodged tackles were against the DEs, PasCovs B and B-, Tackls B and B+. The WR and RB who got the screens were actually very good, with both B+ agility and A breakTackl, so I think there is a precise strategy behind all that.All the same, whatever the abilities, I think that 16 break tackles/dodge tackles in a single game, by a WR or RB (not FB), against B+ overall DEs, are a bit over the top.
[Edited on 2-20-2011 by dsaved]
Fulla
February 20, 2011 at 11:14PM View BBCode
Could you post a link to the game? I'm wondering if his QB had low Throw Power and High Throw Accuracy which might play right into a short passing game.
dsaved
[url]http://football.simdynasty.com/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=2460&thid=244[/url]
[Edited on 2-20-2011 by dsaved]
February 20, 2011 at 11:25PM View BBCode
sorry... should've thought of it before...[url]http://football.simdynasty.com/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=2460&thid=244[/url]
[Edited on 2-20-2011 by dsaved]
dsaved
February 20, 2011 at 11:41PM View BBCode
other fun stats... after 4 games, that team leads the league in pass.% with an insane 77.2, and in YAC avg, with 7.2.
Hamilton2
February 20, 2011 at 11:51PM View BBCode
I don't think the problem is in the completion %. I think it is the broken tackles and YAC. I also think that Chris is looking into the YAC problem everywhere because they are a little high across the board on short/medium passes.
Fulla
February 21, 2011 at 12:02AM View BBCode
He is probably the second best QB in the league so it stands to reason he is successful.
Bowerz101
If any team kept throwing screens with the other team rushing four, the defense would have a field day. You might be able to get away with it the first couple times but if you run it more than 3 times in a quarter I would think the probability of a large gain decreases dramatically.
February 21, 2011 at 12:06AM View BBCode
The problem is if a team keeps throwing screens over and over in the NFL, the D-Line is going to recognize it and sit back a little while not rushing the passer as hard. Screens are far too effective right now and should be something that is used to counter-act a strong blitzing defense. Problem is no one is really blitzing right now because it leaves you so vulnerable to the short-medium passes in zone situations.If any team kept throwing screens with the other team rushing four, the defense would have a field day. You might be able to get away with it the first couple times but if you run it more than 3 times in a quarter I would think the probability of a large gain decreases dramatically.
redcped
http://football.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?displaytab=stats&id=11630&statsyear=0&statstype=reg&statsmode=rec&statsloc=all&statsweather=-1
February 21, 2011 at 02:52AM View BBCode
I just found one team in my league has a RB who has 48 receptions through 4 games.http://football.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?displaytab=stats&id=11630&statsyear=0&statstype=reg&statsmode=rec&statsloc=all&statsweather=-1
Admin
I'm going to see what I can do about this.
--Chris
February 21, 2011 at 03:50AM View BBCode
I think redcped is probably right... there's probably a flaw in the matchup that's being exploited here. The YAC curve for a screen should be completely different from a regular pass and right now it isn't. Plus, the higher average carry skills of an RB are giving him higher success the way the YAC routines are currently written.I'm going to see what I can do about this.
--Chris
Admin
- Screens remain a high-percentage play, as they should; however, I believe I've filled the loophole that allowed them to get so much YAC and mde it more realistic
- I've given screens more chance to go out of bounds during the run, which will also cut down on YAC
- I had reduced interception rates on screens compared to regular passes. I've adjusted this; an interception on a screen is still half as likely as an interception on a normal pass, but since there are so few offensive players between the interceptor and the end zone, I've given intercepted screens a much larger chance of being returned for a TD.
I need to test these changes, so not sure how fast I can get them in, but I will make it ASAP. ( I can test fairly quickly by forcing all passes to be screens in my private test league.)
--Chris
February 21, 2011 at 04:14AM View BBCode
OK, here's what I'm doing:- Screens remain a high-percentage play, as they should; however, I believe I've filled the loophole that allowed them to get so much YAC and mde it more realistic
- I've given screens more chance to go out of bounds during the run, which will also cut down on YAC
- I had reduced interception rates on screens compared to regular passes. I've adjusted this; an interception on a screen is still half as likely as an interception on a normal pass, but since there are so few offensive players between the interceptor and the end zone, I've given intercepted screens a much larger chance of being returned for a TD.
I need to test these changes, so not sure how fast I can get them in, but I will make it ASAP. ( I can test fairly quickly by forcing all passes to be screens in my private test league.)
--Chris
dsaved
February 21, 2011 at 08:13AM View BBCode
thanks, I don't mind being beaten, but I thought there could be some sort of flaw there.
Bowerz101
http://football.simdynasty.com/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=3271&thid=334
31-54, 654 yards passing after 3 quarters for my QB with 5 passing TDs.
15 receptions, 362 yards receiving after 3 quarters for my RB with 5 receiving TD's. He now has 1400 receiving yards after 6 games -- 1050 of those yards are YAC.
Yikes.
February 22, 2011 at 07:21PM View BBCode
I had to post this. Im assuming the changes havent come into effect yet.http://football.simdynasty.com/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=3271&thid=334
31-54, 654 yards passing after 3 quarters for my QB with 5 passing TDs.
15 receptions, 362 yards receiving after 3 quarters for my RB with 5 receiving TD's. He now has 1400 receiving yards after 6 games -- 1050 of those yards are YAC.
Yikes.
CCondardo
In this game: http://football.simdynasty.com/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=78&thid=3
There were 22 screens thrown, 18 of which were completed. Average of 17 yards per catch. 13 of 18 included broken tackles.
Chris can we get some insight on which defense actually has the ability to throw the lineman out to the side? A good screen defense includes some kind of DL or DE recognizing the play and getting in front of the runner. That is why screens are not so effective in real football.
~Corey
February 22, 2011 at 07:48PM View BBCode
There is 100% of a flaw. I have attempted to stop it with a man, shallow zone, balanced run D. Nothing worksIn this game: http://football.simdynasty.com/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=78&thid=3
There were 22 screens thrown, 18 of which were completed. Average of 17 yards per catch. 13 of 18 included broken tackles.
Chris can we get some insight on which defense actually has the ability to throw the lineman out to the side? A good screen defense includes some kind of DL or DE recognizing the play and getting in front of the runner. That is why screens are not so effective in real football.
~Corey
Williams_482
February 22, 2011 at 07:58PM View BBCode
with the right personnel, they are extremely effective (although not quite to the extent that they have been helping me). See the New England Patriots.
Kingturtle
February 22, 2011 at 09:24PM View BBCode
i guess i'll be playing mostly screens for the next game.